Sunday, August 16, 2020

Data Error in Mission Log 11109

Pathfinder Raven1207 updated the mission log with a supplemental request of “Please tell me if i did this right”. Looking at the data: no, this appears to have been incorrect as it did not include “A Distinct Discovery, generated as per the process set out in the rule Making New Distinct Discoveries” - I can’t see that the Unknown Qualifian Vegetable fits this (even with the potential stretch of reading “generated” as “already generated in the past by someone else”, the ruleset only lists an Unknown Qualifian Mineral).

This should have been an Unknown Energetic Vegetable, to match the Location name, and it should have been created and added to the ruleset as per this rule.

Since creating a Location isn’t an atomic action, it’s unclear how exactly to proceed here - I think you’ve got the freedom to either continue taking the action that you already started, but finishing it correctly (keeping the same die rolls), or start it again from scratch.

I’ve undone the update to the Mission Log for now, as the Location as defined cannot legally exist and other Pathfinders shouldn’t build on it.

Comments

Raven1207: he/they

17-08-2020 11:29:32 UTC

My apologies. I thought I did all the steps correctly.

Raven1207: he/they

17-08-2020 11:30:36 UTC

Was the use of “Qualifian” instead of “Energetic” the only mistake?

Kevan: he/him

17-08-2020 14:23:37 UTC

“and it should have been created and added to the ruleset as per this rule.”

Raven1207: he/they

17-08-2020 15:55:35 UTC

Oh

Raven1207: he/they

17-08-2020 21:22:29 UTC

Wait, what does the last thing mean

Kevan: he/him

18-08-2020 06:17:53 UTC

What last thing are you talking about?

Raven1207: he/they

18-08-2020 17:07:26 UTC

The thing in quotes

Raven1207: he/they

18-08-2020 17:07:59 UTC

“and it should have been created and added to the ruleset as per this rule.” -Kev

Kevan: he/him

18-08-2020 17:38:18 UTC

The Making New Distinct Discoveries rule, I’m quoting the original post I wrote above.

The Location rule tells you to add “A Distinct Discovery, generated as per the process set out in the rule Making New Distinct Discoveries”. Note that it’s changed since you took the action (it generates Latin-style names instead of things like “Unknown Energetic Vegetable”).

You need to complete the steps of “Making New Distinct Discoveries”, from 2 onwards. (You already did “Give it a Classification” and rolled Vegetable, but didn’t do anything else.) Once you’ve done that you can add the Energy Mountains back to the Mission Log. (Easy way to do that is to go here and click “undo”, and change “Unknown Qualifian Vegetable” to whatever the new name you rolled is.)

Raven1207: he/they

19-08-2020 02:00:12 UTC

I was only following Josh’s (I think it was Josh’s) rolls. I didn’t see any roles involving anything else. I’m confused

Kevan: he/him

19-08-2020 07:55:01 UTC

When any game has complex multi-step rules you need to be able to read them and follow them, understanding what each step means, rather than winging it by copying some bits you think you should be copying (or, as you did here, performing one of the steps I said that you needed to do, but ignoring and skipping all the rest of the advice).

If you’re struggling to follow both the rules and the advice that people are giving you about those rules, I’m not sure what else to suggest.

Raven1207: he/they

19-08-2020 12:10:19 UTC

Yes but josh or whatever did their rolls not that long before i did my rolls. There wasn’t that much of the rules then and the only thing that seemed to be illegal was Energetic/Qualifier

Raven1207: he/they

19-08-2020 12:14:43 UTC

What is the point me still doing this game or whatever if:

A) No one wanted to be my mentor while every other newbie after me got a mentor

B) Every time I try to make my own proposal, I can’t word it right whatsoever

And now C) Can’t even do a stupid action right

Kevan: he/him

19-08-2020 16:36:37 UTC

Your last proposal was fine and showed that you’d gotten the hang of formatting, it just clashed with a proposal made around the same time that also happened to use the term “Leader”.

This dynasty’s actions are definitely more complex than most. If you can’t get them right and are finding it hard to follow discussions about what you’re doing wrong, I guess I’d recommend sticking to the simpler actions (applying equipment that other players have already tested out, in locations they’ve already discovered) and see if you can capitalise on that approach.

There’s only one player on the Mentor list right now, if anyone else adds themselves I’ll ask them if they’d want to take you on.

Raven1207: he/they

19-08-2020 23:42:58 UTC

For the mentor thing, it seemed like no one had cared enough since you did make that Mentor post about me needing a mentor and no one.

Raven1207: he/they

19-08-2020 23:44:29 UTC

As for everything else, I don’t want to do the simple stuff every goddam time. Doing simple stuff in the last dynasty had it where I wasn’t able to do anything at all

Kevan: he/him

20-08-2020 08:58:35 UTC

Okay, your latest actions (in the Mission Log and Ruleset) had the following mistakes:

* The Location name rule changed from EFF words to “a random Prefix followed by a random vowel”, a few days ago, but you used the old “Energy Mountains” you rolled four days ago.
* The Index for a new location should be “the lowest positive integer that has not been used by another Location” - which would be 5 - but you gave it an already-used Index of 3 and renumbered the other Locations.
* “When a Location is created, it is Linked to the Location of the Pathfinder who created it” - you linked it to the Qualifier Hills, but your Location is the Cortex Desert.
* The Latin prefix Vegetable name needs to be randomly generated by using the Dice Roller: I’m assuming you either picked it using another system, or chose manually.
* You forgot to claim the 2 Prestige, which Pathfinders now get for a successful Location scouting.
* Most critically (and I’m afraid I didn’t notice this until checking your working just now): “Roll DICE8. If the result is higher than the number of Locations that are Linked to their current Location, then they may spend 2 Stamina to create a new Location” - you rolled a 1, four days ago, which is not high enough to take the Location creation action at all.

On reflection we could just fix the first five mistakes on your behalf, since they don’t involve any decisions, but we can’t fix the sixth.

At this point I’d assume nobody would begrudge you a straightforward proposal of:

Add to the Discovery list “Athroida Andria [Vegetable, Distinct Energy Mountains] Description Pending [→ Unknown]”. Add to the Location list a Mountains called “The Energy Mountains” with a Distinct Discovery of Athroida Andria, an ID of the lowest positive integer that has not been used by another Location, and linked to the Cortex Desert. Reduce Raven1209’s Stamina by 2 and give them 2 Prestige.

Raven1207: he/they

21-08-2020 18:40:28 UTC

There has been no other proposal that I’ve seen that has had that happen as far as I’ve seen(And I’m talking about the last thing)

Kevan: he/him

21-08-2020 19:16:23 UTC

You can propose anything you like in a game of Nomic. Gamestate proposals like that aren’t unknown, when a player gets a complicated action wrong and is starting to feel that it’s too difficult (or too late) to correct it through game actions alone.

Raven1207: he/they

22-08-2020 16:27:58 UTC

I’m talking about this

“Add to the Discovery list “Athroida Andria [Vegetable, Distinct Energy Mountains] Description Pending [→ Unknown]”. Add to the Location list a Mountains called “The Energy Mountains” with a Distinct Discovery of Athroida Andria, an ID of the lowest positive integer that has not been used by another Location, and linked to the Cortex Desert. Reduce Raven1209’s Stamina by 2 and give them 2 Prestige.”

No one else had done that before as a proposal as far as i’ve seen and the plant thing was a thing for a while now

Kevan: he/him

22-08-2020 17:00:49 UTC

Yes, I’m also talking about that.