Thursday, February 01, 2007

Declaration of Victory: I win

Passes 6-4. Good job, Doremi!

Adminned at 02 Feb 2007 15:48:55 UTC

Me: (3*2+2*1+1*1)*2 = 18
McNally: (3*2+2*2+1*1)= 11

I have a score greeater than McNally, and therefore, I guess, I win, according to rule 2.7.

Comments

viewtyjoe:

02-01-2007 17:34:35 UTC

for
Score calculation works out, meets 2.7 conditions for heroism.

Hix:

02-01-2007 18:15:47 UTC

But Excalabur Homeland has a greater score than you do.  The use of “any” in the first bullet point in Rule 2.7 is ambiguous, but it was clearly meant to mean that it has to be satisfied for all other teams (i.e. I should be able to choose any team, and it would be true that your score is greater than that team’s score).  It’s certainly not heroic to just be better than a single other (possibly new-formed) team.  See the original wording in Bucky’s proposal at http://blognomic.com/archive/victory_by_heroism/ for an unambiguous explaination.  That Proposal was reproposed 3 days later by Bucky in the form of the current Heroism rule. against

spikebrennan:

02-01-2007 18:53:00 UTC

against Agree with Hix.  The plain meaning of the phrase “...greater than any Team of which e is not a member” is not “...greater than at least one other Team of which e is not a member”; it’s “...greater than each Team, considered individually, of which e is not a member”.

peacefulwarrior:

02-01-2007 19:08:37 UTC

I guess I’m misreading 2.7, but it looks to me like it says the 7 popularity points get multiplied by 2, because e is a Star, which would mean that is medal score gets multiplied by 14.  How am I reading that incorrectly?

peacefulwarrior:

02-01-2007 19:08:58 UTC

imperial

spikebrennan:

02-01-2007 19:23:20 UTC

Peaceful:
“For the purposes of this Rule and its subrules, each Olympian has a Score equal to three times eir Gold Medals, plus twice eir Silver Medals, plus eir Bronze Medals, all times eir Popularity Multiplier That is, (3G+2S+B)*M. Eir Popularity Multiplier is 1/2 if e is Notorious, 3/4 if e is Unpopular but not Notorious, 2 if e is Star, 3/2 if e is Popular but not Star, and 1 if no other multiplier applies.”

The “Popularity” statistic, in and of itself, is not part of the calculation at all.  Rather, the “Popularity” statistic tells you what category you are in (e.g., “Unpopular”, “Notorious”, “Star”, etc.), and the category tells you what number to use for the “Popularity Multiplier”.

Excalabur:

02-01-2007 20:54:45 UTC

As I recall, you can’t vote IMP on DoVs, either. (Did they change that, too?)

Anyhow, agree with Hix against

peacefulwarrior:

02-01-2007 21:07:39 UTC

oops.  well, can I unvote and then revote, or does it have to stand?

Hix:

02-01-2007 21:13:59 UTC

Just vote again. Only the most recent will count.  Actually, in this case, you technically haven’t voted at all yet.

alethiophile:

02-01-2007 22:11:51 UTC

for  I always read 2.7 to mean any team, not all teams. As far as I can tell, that’s pretty unambiguous.

Clucky:

02-01-2007 22:13:34 UTC

against
Hix is right. You are close, but you still need one more to beat EH. (you have 18, EH has 19).

Clucky:

02-01-2007 22:15:06 UTC

No, its not. It says “any” that is very clear. It means I can pick any team that Doremi is not a part of. I pick EH, and eir victory conditions are no longer met.

Elias IX:

02-01-2007 22:39:18 UTC

against

alethiophile:

02-02-2007 01:22:54 UTC

My vote remains unchanged. I always read it as any team, defined by the potential victor. I realize there’s a grey area here.

Elias IX:

02-02-2007 02:37:36 UTC

for COV

If Bucky meant “all”, he would have definitely put “all” into the rule.

Victories in Blognomic have had a long history of taking the ruleset literally. I don’t see why in this case we make exceptions.

Even though Doremi has the stigma of being a new player, that shouldn’t prevent other players from voting eir DoV’s down.

Clucky:

02-02-2007 02:51:34 UTC

If Bucky meant “a”, he would have definitely put “a” into the rule.

The rule is called “heroism”. It aint much of a hero to be better than one other team. You need to be better than them all.

Clucky:

02-02-2007 02:55:18 UTC

against COV. I was debating this with Elias and eventually proved his point.

The way I see it, the wording is unclear and can be taken either way. But Doremi will probably win even if we take “any” to mean “all”, and thus just saves me from having to write more events. =P

Clucky:

02-02-2007 03:02:10 UTC

Wait, I hit the wrong button. But then, I managed to figure out my logical error.(I didn’t actually prove Elias’s point)

Hix could say “I have a shorter name than any other Olympian”

But if I tried to say “I have a shorter name than any other Olympian” this would be false.

In the same way, Doremi could not say “I have a higher score than any Team which I am not on”

So my vote will say against, because I do not feel like victory has been achived, even if I want it to be.

Doremi:

02-02-2007 04:44:49 UTC

oh well. Now I might have to actually sign up for duck duck extreme even though it is impossible for anyone to get a wits roll of over 100, and that my dex and wits aren’t really my strong points. Just vying for a bronze.

Excalabur:

02-02-2007 07:35:32 UTC

Oh, Doremi: you have to vote yourself up on DoVs…

Excalabur:

02-02-2007 07:37:17 UTC

Currently 3-5 against.  Can be resolved any-time now with two more votes, or at 1650UTC as it stands.

peacefulwarrior:

02-02-2007 13:03:49 UTC

I vote for, because even though I have a newcomer’s understanding of the rules, any time you have some people proclaiming that the rules are clear while others proclaim they are not, that’s when the conditions for ambiguity have been met, so it seems there is no right answer.

ChronosPhaenon:

02-02-2007 13:28:10 UTC

for We’ve voted this way in other dinasties where creative reading of ambiguous wording would leave doubts about victory. Furthermore, it’s about time this Dinasty endas *and* Doremi is almost there anyways.

Doremi, unlike proposals,you have to vote for you own DoV. As it stands now, your vote is not being counted.

It is passing 5-4 right now.

Clucky:

02-02-2007 14:30:00 UTC

Because there is a majority of FOR(and Doremi probably didn’t know that e had to vote) I won’t resolve this now. I would suggest we wait for the 10th person to vote and then get someone to decide it.

spikebrennan:

02-02-2007 15:01:18 UTC

I stand by my “no” vote because we all know what “any” phrases mean, and this DoV is based on a misinterpretation of the plain meaning of Rule 2.7.

That being said, I recognize that Doremi’s eventual victory is all but certain anyway, and in the absence of hiatus if someone were to make a proposal to attack Excalabur Homeland’s medal total (like we did with Rand McNally) as a result of which no rival Team would have a higher score than Doremi, then I would vote for that proposal and hand the victory to Doremi.

The Doctor:

02-02-2007 15:02:38 UTC

against

Clucky:

02-02-2007 15:43:54 UTC

Ok. Chronos is saying that there has been a trend for giving people very liberal interpretations of the rules.  And if Doremi has know e had to vote for this, this would’ve already passed. Plus I don’t want to write more events So…

COV for

Congratulations, Doremi.

peacefulwarrior:

02-02-2007 15:48:17 UTC

Yay, now what?