Monday, August 15, 2011

Fweep: Counting the Cost

Upheld 5-2. Josh

Adminned at 17 Aug 2011 13:12:21 UTC

Coppro scammed the Follow-Through action, realising that its first clause didn’t prevent it being used at any time. Which is perhaps fair enough. However, he failed to pay any action points to use these Follow-Through actions. “Main Actions are actions that have a Cost in AP (which must be spent in order to perform the Main Action), which is 1 unless otherwise stated.” - this means that all of his Follow-Through actions were illegal, as he did not pay their costs. As a result, he did not claim a StickyBomb, did not earn a Frag for his own death, did not move from the position where he entered the Arena, and there’s still some Blood lying around.

(This does mean that Follow-Through is a useless action - pay 1AP to reduce the cost of your next action by 1AP! - but that’s exactly how it’s written. It is not a 0AP action.)

Comments

Josh: Observer he/they

15-08-2011 15:17:07 UTC

for

Blacky:

15-08-2011 18:40:20 UTC

for

Bucky:

15-08-2011 19:36:29 UTC

for

Ely:

15-08-2011 21:01:36 UTC

for

Prince Anduril:

15-08-2011 21:39:06 UTC

against

As I argue in, Slip and Slide Suicide, the “When” can be interpreted in a way which doesn’t make a nonsense of the APs, and I think it fair to say that if there is *a* reasonable way of interpreting something, then we should go with that, rather than assume the way which makes rules non-sensical.

scshunt:

15-08-2011 23:03:51 UTC

against for the same reason as Prince Anduril. I feel that this is just fitting the ruling to fix the scam, rather than just acknowledging the scam. While no-one previously attempted to follow through, no one ever doubted that it worked to fix the cost either.

There’s no reason not to interpret “When you do X, it costs Y” as saying “Y costs X”.

Kevan: he/him

15-08-2011 23:27:31 UTC

I’m not saying that the Steps weren’t free, I’m saying that the Follow Throughs weren’t free. We seem to have a situation where you can Follow Through for 1AP (because it’s a normal Main Action), and having done so you can then take a Step for 0AP. If you want to perform five free Steps, you have to perform five Follow Throughs before each one, at 1AP each.

Yes, this is unintuitive and presumably not how the rule was intended to work, but it’s what the rule says.

Kevan: he/him

15-08-2011 23:28:49 UTC

(And sorry, I can see now that the Fweep was badly worded - I should have said “he failed to pay any action points to take these Follow-Through actions”, not “use”.)

Prince Anduril:

16-08-2011 15:10:18 UTC

Kevan: The problem is that you’re only reading the rule in one way (which was obviously how it was meant) - However, it could equally be read the way coppro did. It’s the very idea that the ‘Follow Throughs’ aren’t free that makes the rule non-sensical. Since you can interpret the rule so that the follow throughs themselves are free (by using the alternative definition of ‘When’) I don’t see what’s wrong with what he did.

Kevan: he/him

16-08-2011 15:41:28 UTC

I’m not saying that the Steps weren’t free, I’m saying that the “Follow Through” actions (the actions called “Follow Through” which you have to take in order to get your free Step) weren’t free.