Wednesday, December 16, 2009

Proposal: Fiat Lux Redux

Passed 13-5. Quorum for.—alethiophile

Adminned at 17 Dec 2009 11:07:01 UTC

Add a new dynastic rule, entitled “Universe”, as follows:

The Universe exists, and is gamestate.  The initial state of the Universe consists of all locations, tangible objects, concepts and other subject matters about which an English-language Wikipedia article exists as of 23:59:59 GMT on December 15, 2009 (the “Reference Time”), as described in English-language Wikipedia at the Reference Time (the “Reference Source”).  Changes to the Reference Source after the Reference Time shall be disregarded.  For example, if the Reference Source provides that the Cullinan Diamond ( is located in the Tower of London, in the city of London, in the United Kingdom, in Europe, on Earth, then the same shall be true in the initial state of the Universe; moreover, if the Reference Source provides that the Eiffel Tower is located in Paris, France, then by necessary implication for purposes of the initial state of the Universe the Eiffel Tower is located in Europe and in the Northern Hemisphere, on Earth.

If the Reference Source contains two or more contrary or mutually exclusive statements (e.g., “Taiwan is part of China” and “Taiwan is not part of China”), and a determination of which, if any, of those statements correctly describes the initial state of the Universe becomes relevant for Blognomic purposes, then the determination of the Djinni shall be conclusive and binding.

Each Adventurer has a “Location” , which is tracked in the GNDT.  Locations are limited to real-life (i.e., not fictional or mythical), contemporary (as of the Reference Time) locations on Earth that have their own article in the Reference Source.  For example, Independence Hall (United States),  Elvis’ Pink Cadillac, and Asia are all legitimate Locations; while Narnia, Heaven and the Holy Roman Empire do not exist as legitimate Locations.  If there is any dispute or controversy over whether a purported location is a legitimate Location, the determination of the Djinni shall be conclusive and binding.  Within 96 hours after the enactment of the “Fiat Lux Redux” proposal, each Adventurer shall select his initial Location; if he does not do so, then the Djinni shall select that Adventurer’s initial Location.  The initial Location of each Adventurer must have a size or area, as specified in the Reference Source, of no more than one thousand square miles (i.e., “North America” is not a permitted initial Location, but “New York City” is.)

The state of the Universe, and Locations of Adventurers and other objects or entities may be altered by actions that affect Gamestate: for example, if the Reference Source provides that the International Prototype Kilogram (IPK) is located in France, and spikebrennan’s Location is Paris, France, and a wish is subsequently granted which provides that France shall be contained in a brown paper bag behind a dumpster in Perth, Australia, then for gamestate purposes (unless subsequently changed again), France, the IPK and spikebrennan shall all be in that brown paper bag (and the IPK and spikebrennan would continue to be in France, which in turn is in Perth, Australia); any contrary reference in the Reference Source notwithstanding.



12-16-2009 20:38:20 UTC



12-16-2009 21:07:55 UTC

for  for  for  for  for  for  for  for  for  for


12-16-2009 21:25:14 UTC

Where are we keeping track of all this???


12-16-2009 21:32:15 UTC

The change in reference time makes me suspect a scam, but since there aren’t any rules yet, it’s hard to imagine what it could be.

Also, if we’re going to go this big with gamestate, I think we really need to be able to wish changes to the ruleset. For instance, someone sinks Asia, and I’m in Asia. If there’s a rule that gives me some kind of penalty for potentially drowning, I should ideally be able to wish that I could breathe underwater to counteract that, which is only possible if I can wish a rule into effect. Of course, that’s not without its dangers.


12-16-2009 21:34:12 UTC

It make me nervous that the reference time is so recent. I would feel more comfortable if the reference time were pushed back a week so, to a time before this proposal was likely conceived (and Wikipedia articles potentially altered specifically for this game).

If that alteration were made, I’d probably vote in favor.

Ienpw III:

12-16-2009 21:36:19 UTC

against Per Nausved.


12-16-2009 21:46:27 UTC

Scout’s honor, I did not vandalize WP in anticipation of this proposal, and didn’t consult with anyone else before the first proposal attempt. MyWP username is also spikebrennan; feel free to check my edit history.

Change from 00:00:00 to 23:59:59 was to prevent “midnight” ambiguity, and in this reproposal I moved it back by a second to make it clear that it wasn’t a wikipedia vandalism scam.

If a different reference time would be preferable, post a patch. I picked a recent time so that we wouldn’t have to check wikipedia page edit histories every single time- very few pages will have dramatically changed since the reference time.


12-16-2009 21:47:20 UTC



12-16-2009 22:46:37 UTC



12-16-2009 23:24:11 UTC

for Glad we’re not argueing over when midnight is again. that was a rather crazy moment in my life lol.


12-16-2009 23:29:56 UTC

Actually, you didn’t move it back a second. You moved it ahead 23 hours, 59 minutes, and 59 seconds.


12-16-2009 23:31:33 UTC


Until someone can clarify where these changes will be tracked.


12-17-2009 00:51:39 UTC

Changes could probably just be tracked unofficially on the wiki.


12-17-2009 00:54:40 UTC

I think this is good, but it should a) specifically require changes to the Universe over the Reference Source to be tracked somewhere, and b) make some provision for Wishes to counteract rules (somehow).


12-17-2009 02:50:11 UTC



12-17-2009 02:53:04 UTC



12-17-2009 02:53:58 UTC

Is this going to be the most complicated dynasty ever?


12-17-2009 04:05:51 UTC

Stands at 7-4.


12-17-2009 04:07:46 UTC


Apathetic Lizardman:

12-17-2009 05:42:54 UTC



12-17-2009 06:44:29 UTC



12-17-2009 09:09:58 UTC



12-17-2009 09:48:46 UTC



12-17-2009 16:51:51 UTC



12-17-2009 17:05:24 UTC

CoV:  for

Stands at 11-6.


12-17-2009 19:00:40 UTC