I take (and consume) the Pills. As a craction I equip my Gas Mask; as a second craction I sell 2 Fuelcans and a Sewing Kit for Money.

Oh, if it’s okay with the crowd, I’d like to have also unequipped my Crowbar while equipping the Gas Mask.

Fine with me.

(I don’t know if this is your intention but you can sell worn and wielded items, it’s not a problem)

It was, so it doesn’t really matter either way I guess. I’d also have to wield a knife instead to cut my rope if I ever want the crowbar to be useful.

I take Binoculars

I’m sorry to stall this crate but depending on if Cuddlebeam idles or not changes a few things for me (like taking the fibreboard).

So, am I unidled?

Also, about me “having a chance”, the only way I could play while not just pretending to do so is to either:

- Conspire with someone else, and Diabecko has already declined, Card also declined my offer, then seemed to want to but hasn’t given me anything so I assume it’s a no until he gives me something, and pokes isn’t replying. So that doesn’t seem to be an option.

- Propose BS (which I have just now)

- Scam, which I just attempted.

I don’t think your gamestate values would change when you unidle, as “their personal gamestate retains the last legally endowed values it had”. Legalities of unidling while unidle aside.

[pokes] That’s only “if they went Idle in the same dynasty”. If not (including if they’re being unidled without ever having idled) the “otherwise” triggers and they get default values.

It looks like no admin has yet chosen to try performing the requested scam on Cuddlebeam’s behalf.

Due to a clerical error I ended up not enacting that proposal before it was self-killed, so Cuddlebeam never was idle. If he argues that the proposal did pass or that he was idled, then he can’t unidle until 4 days from now.

[pokes] that clause doesn’t apply because “When a Resident is unidled, if they went Idle in the same dynasty, their personal”

[Cuddlebeam] I believe that I had fewer items to trade with at the time so I thought it wasn’t worth it then.

@pokes: That is ONLY when “When a Resident is unidled, if they went Idle in the same dynasty, their personal gamestate retains the last legally endowed values it had, if they are still valid.”

I didn’t go Idle.

[card] “then he can’t unidle until 4 days from now” - not quite, because being idled by proposal means Cuddlebeam wouldn’t have “asked to become (or rendered themselves) Idle within the previous four days”, and could unidle instantly.

Triple jinx!

Regardless of the idled-same-dynasty clause, though, is there reason to assume that someone unidling gets any values changed?

Another twist: is a proposal to idle yourself a request to be idled?

@Pokes: Yes. “Otherwise (including if a value is invalid, does not exist, or the Resident Idled in a different dynasty), the Resident is given the default value for new Resident, if such a value exists.”

And we just gave Mortal the HP value of 8, so the “default value for a new Resident” has to be 8, which is what I was aiming to shanghai.

[pokes] I assume the argument for “retains the last legally endowed values” is that when you become Idle you stop being a Resident for the purposes of all dynastic rules, including eg. “Each Resident has a level of Alertness”. If you lack the quality of Alertness and are then granted it again by unidling, it needs a rule to clarify what happens there.

A proposal to idle yourself with flavour text implying a goodbye does sound quite like a request to become idle, but I’m not sure I’d act on it personally.

[Cuddlebeam] You’d also have your inventory blanked, though, if all your stats get set to the defaults? Maybe an admin will help you out after all, if they don’t mind Money leaving the system.

@Kevan: There is no explicit default for Inventory, luckily.

$Cuddelbeam unfortunately the ruleset has default values for default values
” If a game variable has no defined starting value, then that starting value is the nearest legal value to zero that it may take (for numerical variables, defaulting to positive if tied), blank (for a text string or list that may be blank), the alphabetically earliest legal text string it may take (for a text string which may not be blank, with the digits 0 through 9 considered to precede “A”), or the list which is alphabetically earliest from the set of lists with the fewest elements (for lists which may not be blank, and considering each list to be a single unpunctuated text string, with the digits 0 through 9 considered to precede “A”). “

If it works it’s still something though

(mainly I could Violent others and make all Proposals fail and be one of those “supports” which aren’t set to win as I mentioned way back then)

(Making all proposals fail via having me and my puppeteer just vote AGAINST, forcing a tie, making proposals no longer a concern for counterplay to whatever they want to do, would proposals be a problem, which it sometimes is when you’re set to win. Man am I on a roll with these trail-on comments lol)

(And a support overall because I’d have someone who is available to collaborate with me at all, opening the conspiring option which is one of the things I need open in order to do anything productive in the game)

I’m not sure what you mean in these last few comments, can you clarify?

I think Cuddlebeam is assuming (more or less correctly) that the Government will always vote DEF on gameplay-level proposals, so with four Residents any proposal with a 2-2 split would fail.

Yes, I’ve explained horribly lol.

- If I get unidled, that means that I have an accomplice and I could be once more to be useful (because I could earn something from them, why make deals otherwise. The goal is to have the dynasty end with me getting something from it, or a “fraction” of something, like diceroll chance or something. Ideally a win, of course.)
- If I get my Stances cleared, I can whack people again, which obviously would be useful to that accomplice.
- Would I be subservient to an accomplice, I could also vote AGAINST with them on proposals, which would make proposals be 2 v 2 + Emperor Neutral vote, which is a Failed. And being able to defend against nearly any proposal like that would be very useful too, because a way for losing people to get back into the game is via proposals, and stopping that means securing the game even more.

I’m not sure what to interpret of all this :D. Is anyone actually going to “unidle” Cuddlebeam, thus reseting his stats (meaning he now will be in front of me), or are we simply discussing the theoretical consequences of something that’s not happening ?

If I’m unidled, a winning move could likely be done before a proposal to close it up is passed. The problem is that I need someone who is an Admin to pull it off, and they likely only would do it if its part of a deal (not like Admin Advantage hasn’t been used to win in the past).

(And if I’m unidled at all, that means that I have an accomplice which means that the conspiracy option is open and we can do more stuff. I’m just mentioning those two routes together too much lol, when they’re separate but related things. Regular gameplay for me is dead obviously, BS proposing is also dead as proven, Scamming is dead-ish (I don’t know if I want to burn more Core scams or not here…), and Conspiring seems to be the best way out)

I’d just like to know before I time out. I think whoever believes your unidling-and-reset is valid should do it purely out of admin responsibility, not for gameplay advantage, and so should do it now (before I time out).

They can just decline and say that they don’t believe in it (whether they do or not) or say that they want to stay out of the issue.

And to add to it, they can just propose to revert it. Or, Kevan will, like he did with my other mid-dynasty scams (or he can choose not to, because of interest to keep me in the game I guess). I’m relying on that I would be able to take advantage of it before such a fix passes.

!Diabecko I believe that even if you took an item now you wouldn’t have a problem with Cuddlebeam unidling after since they would have had a lower priority at the time you took the item.

@card it’s really about the fibreboard. (I can’t help it, I love that stuff :D). If I take my item now, and THEN Cuddlebeam get’s reset, I would lose a fibreboard simply because the consequences of his unidling was delayed.

*gets *“were delayed”
I’m getting sloppy.

(Not complaining or anything, I can wait :P… Just that if I was sure it won’t happen I could take my item and the game could go on ;-)

“thus reseting his stats (meaning he now will be in front of me)” - Cuddlebeam would be behind (and asleep), as new Residents start with an Alertness of zero.

If Cuddlebeam gets unidled then I’d support any revert, including a Fibreboard refund or punishment clause as appropriate. This kind of pointless mid-dynasty scam that doesn’t actually achieve anything beyond bogging the game down in uncertainty (and making people talk about the scammer) for a day or two are not why I play Nomic.

(true, I forgot about the default alertness being 0 now)
Ok I’ll take my item.

I take binoculars.

I’m pretty screwed lol, as you can see, I can’t progress in items unless I discard an item (in which case I go nowhere).

Or to just wait until a new crate comes with something I can heal with and someone before me doesn’t just take it first.

Or I can, well, suicide lol. Going to try out a thing.

I took the Tinned Food then as a Craction I took a visit to the Black Market to turn my Money into Food.

Or, this isn’t the last comment action step at all, because I die before I can finish the Atomic Action, so now I can’t do any action at all in the ruleset. Or I’m still alive, because I did all of those actions at the same time.

I don’t know if I can make CFJs or not (and if we’re in the case where I’m deadlocked now, any solution I propose through that wouldn’t be useful anyways), so, help pls lol.

(I might not be able to do any action in the ruleset because of ” A Knocked Out Resident may not take dynastic actions.” plus “and they may not take any other action defined in the Ruleset until all such steps are complete.”. I can’t do any step of the Looting Atomic Action because I die before its completed, yet I can’t do any other action until I finish those steps.)

I would reason that your atomic action, as a whole, is not legal. If that’s correct, then you can’t be “stuck” in it since you aren’t allowed to perform it.

What if my death depended on a diceroll? I had a 50% chance of losing the health? Would I be able to do it or not? (Or would I roll the dice before I was at that step of the atomic action? I dunno)

That’s a valid point which clearly needs fixing.

This crate is now empty, anyway.

(And Cuddlebeam will time out later today on this one as they still have Access to this Crate, but have not completed a Looting action on it.)