BlogNomic: The First Dynasty of Desertfrog

Reminder to please wait for 4 hours before voting on this. Other comments are welcome any time.

Why are you choosing this way of dealing with it?

Broad clauses like this are always going to cause problems. What does it mean for an action that was legal when it was performed to become retroactively illegal? What does it really mean for an action to be illegal, and is there a legal way to then resolve it, given that the ruleset doesn’t acknowledge its existence? And is all this worth essentially suspending the game for two days?

Why not just apply a flat position modifier to each slug/snail instead? That way nothing need revert - the impact can just conform around actions taken in the meanwhile.

I’ll still vote against this, as I don’t think that the enactment of a proposal counts as a move and therefore don’t think that any of these effects should be taking place anyway. But this is such a roundabout way of going about it!

There’s other gamestate that can be modified than Position. Status comes to mind, and it too would be impacted.

I’d rather not try to exhaustively list every gamestate variable that should be frozen, but if that’s better than a debate on the meaning of something being retroactively illegal, I’ll do it.

I just know that someone will argue that they made a Play in a Race while this CfJ is pending, and that even though this CfJ resets some gamestate, the fact of making the Play will be used to further some dynastic action that shouldn’t have been.

A fudge might be a better solution than strict fidelity in this instance.

On the other hand, if it will bring more people to the table to only reset Position and nothing else, I’m willing to back off and come to an agreement.

Sorry, I was pondering my comment and missed yours. We’re coming together along the same line of thought.

Alright, changed to setting Position and activating Slugs’ Extra Effects. Let the chips fall where they may…

This risks the new non-slug Snails being thrust significantly far back for no real reason. I’m not a fan.

I agree that it’s not great for the new Snails, but I’m not doing it to be harsh for no reason. I view it as an unfortunate consequence of bringing all Snails out of the Bucket and into the Race because the language used did not exclude Slugs, and the rules regarding Slugs’ Extra Effects weren’t written tight enough, in my opinion.

That said, it’s well within your rights as an affected Snail to vote this down in another hour or so. I won’t be upset at all. Its purpose is really to get interested Snails to decide how the rules should be interpreted in this case.

I’d vote For this if this portion was removed:

For each of the following Snails, roll a DICE2. On a 1, reduce that Snail’s Position by 20. On a 2, increase that Snail’s Position by 20.
* CyberStella
* GetPunnedOn
* Raven1207

I really don’t like this section.

I saw this too late, the edit window is closed. Besides, I think it would miss the point to only enforce the rules partway.

Aren’t things still broken even if this passes? The Official Rules wouldn’t reflect the change.

Come to think of it, if we accept the ‘after’ interpretation given here (and personally I do), the game is just completely broken. When Broom Barry sweeps, he moves backwards 5cm, which causes his Position to change to a value 0cm away from Broom Barry, fulfilling “after a Play a Snail’s Position is changed to be within 8cm of Broom Barry”, causing him to sweep again, on and on ad infinitum. Similar happens with the Iron Slug, but a bit less concerning since at least it stops when the Iron Slug has pulled everyone in its range to share its position.

How do we even deal with situations like this, where we can’t actually follow the rules at all since doing so would require carrying out an infinite number of actions? Surely something like this has happened before in the past, but I can’t think of anything.

I think the text replacement suggested at the bottom of this CfJ fixes all the “after a Play” issues for Slugs. To be fair, I didn’t check the rest of the ruleset.

But you’re right, the Official Rules wouldn’t reflect that change. I’m not sure how to address that except through changing Official Rules itself to have the link point to a different revision of the rules, which would change a number of things.

But it doesn’t update the Official Rules, so it wouldn’t have an effect until the race is over. You’d probably need a clause to update the Official Rules link as well.

Also if you agree with Broom Barry being broken, then right now the dynastic gamestate is illegal and there’s no legal value it can hold (since Broom Barry can just keep sweeping forever). I guess we could just handwave the paradox away with the passage of a fix though.

Oh sorry, I didn’t see your comment before posting.

No worries.

If this CfJ passes, then you’re right, we’d need a follow up to resolve the paradox.

Honestly it’d be easier to say that ‘after’ does mean ‘immediate consequence’ as intended in this context, avoiding the whole mess in the first place. I’m with Josh that either read can be supported well enough by the text, so I’m inclined to go with the one that doesn’t cause a billion problems and we can clarify later

per Habanero

This is kinda better for me than it is for anyone else, so ironically it’s gonna be   after all that

CoV