Friday, December 11, 2009

Proposal: Mach II

Quorumed 14-4 -Darth

Adminned at 12 Dec 2009 13:28:31 UTC

Create a new rule Entitled “Wish Fulfillment” reading:

Each Adventurer (as well as the Djinn) has a value for the statistic “Wishes”, which is tracked in the GNDT. An Adventurer may never have less than 0 wishes. Each Adventurer starts with 3 Wishes, and the Djinn starts with a Wishes value of -. An adventurer may “Make a Wish” by PMing the Djinn. His message should have a title of “I wish”, and contain a single wish. The Djinn Must look at each wish and a) determine whether or not he will grant the wish, and, if he decides to grant the wish, b) reduce the Wishes of the adventurer who made the wish by 1 and perform the results of the wish. A player may not make a wish if his wishes are not greater than 0. The Djinn is allowed to take certain actions only when it is requested to do so by the ruleset. These actions are listed on the list below.

The Djinn may do the following only when it is wished that he does so:
- Undo any game action not covered in the core rules which was less than 24 hour ago. For all purposes except the actual effect of said action, the action is considered to have been performed, and any cost/penalty for performing the action is still assessed. I.E. If the action was a weekly action, it may not be performed again until a new week has begun, and if the action enabled a second action to be taken, that action can still be taken (or it it had already been taken, it still counts). This can also be undone by another wish.
- Change any Adventurer’s Power to any legal value for that player. This adjustment DOES count toward the player’s corruption.
- Allow an Adventurer to take a daily or weekly action an additional time in a single day/week. Other restrictions/costs still apply.

The Djinn is supposed to, to the best of his ability, grant all wishes legally requested of him by an Adventurer, but there are some wishes he will not grant. If the Djinn does not grant a wish, he is required to tell the adventurer who made said wish the reason for which the wish was not fulfilled. Wishes that will not be granted include, but are not limited to:

- Wishes for the Djinn to vote anything other than veto on any proposal, or to vote in a any specific way on any official post that is not a proposal.*
- Wishes for the Djinn to relinquish his position as Djinn or grant this position to any other player.
- Wishes to directly alter any player’s Corruption.
- Wishes to directly alter any player’s Wishes (Wishes for more wishes).
- Wishes that change the way the Djinn would normally fulfil or ignore wishes.
- Wishes that a player achieve victory.
- Wishes which contain more than one part, such as “I wish that I had 10 power and that Bucky had 0 power”, “I wish all players except me had 0 power” or “I wish that both Bucky and I had 0 Power”. (However, wishes such as “I wish ALL players (including myself) had 0 power” and “I wish that all players had the power or the player directly above them in the GNDT before this wish” are entirely valid. There is a fine line between clever and illegal wishes.)

*Yes, this means that a player may wish that the Djinn VETO a proposal, and the wish will be granted in nearly all instances.

Some Wishes simply cannot be fulfilled, thanks to their impossible/illegal nature. These wishes, such as a wish for a pony when said pony is not defined by game-state, a wish for a player to be force-idled, or a wish for a rule to be added without being proposed, will not be fulfilled and will most likely be mocked in some way shape or form. Wishes for things the Djinn is not willing to do, such as idle himself, will obviously not be fulfilled. Wishes for things which the Djinn can legally do are entirely valid, and in most cases (but not in all cases) will be fulfilled. These include wishes that the Djinn make a certain proposal (but not that he won’t self-kill it), change the color scheme, or Change the voting icons. Creativity is encouraged. Sometimes the Djinn may act unfairly. In these cases, an adventurer is not entirely powerless to the wil of the Djinn. if an Adventurer feels that a wish was denied for no valid reason, he can create a CFJ to have the wish be fulfilled anyway.”


Add a new rule entitled “Power and Corruption” which reads

Each Adventurer (as well as the Djinn) has a value for Power and a value for Corruption, each of which is Tracked in the GNDT. Each Adventurer begins with 0 Corruption and 3 Power. The Djinn starts with 666 Corruption and ∞ (infinite) Power. An Adventurer’s Power may never be less than 0 or more than 18. If an action would normally make an adventurer’s Power less than 0, it cannot be taken. If an action would normally make an adventurer’s Power greater than 18, his Corruption is instead increased by 2 and his Power remains (or is increased to) 18. An adventurer’s Corruption may never be less than 0. If an action would normally cause an adventurer’s Corruption to be less than 0, then the action cannot be taken.



12-11-2009 15:47:37 UTC



12-11-2009 15:56:41 UTC



12-11-2009 15:59:21 UTC

My pointing out the wishing about how wishes are granted wasn’t designed as “here is a bug you need to fix” but rather “here is a problem with the idea as a whole”

It is impossible for anyone to know if their idea is clever enough to work or too clever and so it’ll get shot down. The fact that determining this rests in the hands of a single player who even when following the rules can basically do whatever he wants makes it far to arbitrary. The whole point of Nomic is for people to do clever things and be told “Thats clever. Here you get some kind of bonus” not “Thats clever, so I’m going to say you can’t do that”

Maybe some of you don’t mind the arbitrarity of the dynasty, but its enough that I won’t be unidling and remember that just because Wak is emperor doesn’t mean you need to accept his opening proposals if you don’t think they’ll be fun.


12-11-2009 16:31:04 UTC

imperial  Can’t read it right now.


12-11-2009 16:38:45 UTC

for  After reading it, but I agree with Clucky.


12-11-2009 16:50:35 UTC

...actually, CoV against  per Clucky.


12-11-2009 17:10:52 UTC

for “Capricious all-powerful figure” seems good and thematic to me, Clucky. If it begins to get frustrating in practice, we’ll build around it.


12-11-2009 17:29:39 UTC



12-11-2009 17:45:37 UTC



12-11-2009 17:47:23 UTC


I like the arbitrariness factor. Makes for a more unpredictable game, I’d think.


12-11-2009 18:31:37 UTC



12-11-2009 19:44:33 UTC

I unidle.  Quorum rises to 12. for

I think the first wish request is not allowed to be granted, though, because granting the first request will contradict “Wishes for things which the Djinn can legally do are entirely valid, and in most cases (but not in all cases) will be fulfilled.”


12-11-2009 20:01:12 UTC

@Hix: haha. I think it’s valid just so long as at least one is rejected during the dynasty, leading to the silly situation where the legality of an action depends on actions that happen after it. (Admittedly, we effectively have that already with undos, if this passes…) The FRC tried a rule like that; it was great fun that round (=dynasty).


12-11-2009 20:28:30 UTC

Am I correct in thinking that the definition of multi-part wish (in addition to obvious the more obvious joining of multiple wishes with conjunctions) includes all wishes that affect a number of Adventurers other than one Adventurer and all Adventurers? Because “all other Adventurers get the flu” seems like a one part wish to me, even if you can split it into “all players get the flu” and “I wish I didn’t have the flu”. I’m pretty sure any wish can be split into any number of other wishes. (e.g. Wishing for a million dollars could be two wishes for half a million dollars, a million wishes for a dollar, or a hundred million wishes for a penny.)


12-11-2009 20:51:25 UTC



12-11-2009 20:57:44 UTC

against on accountability grounds.  The Djinn should be required to publish all granted wishes.

Ienpw III:

12-11-2009 20:58:28 UTC

against Per Clucky


12-11-2009 21:08:15 UTC

for  CoV


12-11-2009 21:18:12 UTC

for Per Clucky


12-11-2009 21:29:25 UTC


CoV per Bucky.

We need to know what the wishes are if they’re granted.


12-11-2009 21:30:44 UTC

against Per Bucky.


12-11-2009 21:58:39 UTC

CoV per Bucky and the vetoing of “Be Careful What You Wish For” which required this to pass and would have overwritten it.


12-11-2009 22:03:42 UTC

for Patch in the fixes. At the rate we’re going we’re not gonna be starting lol


12-11-2009 22:37:01 UTC


*sigh*, CoV AGAIN…. Wak’s fix solve’s my concern.


12-11-2009 22:39:11 UTC


Apathetic Lizardman:

12-12-2009 06:24:19 UTC



12-12-2009 19:36:34 UTC

Current Score:

FOR - 13
Apathetic Lizardman
Truman Capote

Ienpw III

DEF (no vote) - 0



12-12-2009 20:26:21 UTC

Wak auto-votes for, as it’s his proposal.


12-12-2009 21:04:13 UTC

Quorum is 12… hint hint…