Monday, May 11, 2020

Proposal: . [Appendix]

Self-killed. Failed by Kevan.

Adminned at 14 May 2020 09:03:52 UTC

Add the following as an item in the list of keywords in the appendix:

* Periodic Action
A Periodic Action may only be performed once during the period specified in the rule establishing it, and may not be performed more than once every twelve hours, unless the defined period is shorter than twelve hours. If a Periodic Action does not have a defined period then it defaults to three days.

For when daily actions are too fast and weekly actions are too slow.

Comments

Clucky: he/him

11-05-2020 22:35:45 UTC

I like what you’re trying to do but I don’t think this works. If a period is once a week, its clear I can do it on Friday and then again the next Monday because its a new week.

But when does a three day period start/end? Is it up to the whims of each person? If I do a task on Monday, and then on Wednesday, and then on Friday I could argue that I had my three day periods be Sat/Sun/Mon, Tue/Wed/Thurs, and then Fri/Sat/Sun. But that can get a rather annoying to check. If I perform a weekly action, one just has to check “Did clucky perform an action this week? No, okay its fine”. If I perform a daily action, same thing. If we go by that interpretation, say I do the action on Friday. Now if I just did the action on Monday and Wednesday, its fine. But if I did it on the previous Saturday as well, well now suddenly its not fine.

So the alternative is that if we have a three day periodic action, if I do it I can’t do it again for another three days. But given “and may not be performed more than once every twelve hours” seems pretty clear that isn’t what the rule is actually saying.

Josh: he/they

12-05-2020 07:43:40 UTC

Hm, maybe you’re right, maybe this can be simplified into “once your take the action the periodic clock starts ticking and you can’t take it again until it stops”.

Kevan: he/him

12-05-2020 09:18:57 UTC

So “a Periodic Action may not be performed more than once during the period specified in the rule establishing it”?

It does seem useful for moving the action speed closer to the slower 48 hours of proposals, and it’s definitely something we’ve implemented dynastically in the past. It’s a shame that it doesn’t play well with weekly actions (if there’s a weekly and a two-day-periodic action, you’ll get either three or four of the latter for each of the former, depending on carefully or luckily how you time it), which people won’t always realise until it happens, but I guess that’s Nomic.

I’m still in two minds about what daily actions are actually achieving, in any given dynasty, and whether they’re ever too fast. Although it feels like they’re saying “the game is balanced if this action happens exactly seven times per week”, I think they’re often just saying “don’t do this a hundred times in one go, please”, and giving players enough time to react to the first action.

Kevan: he/him

12-05-2020 10:00:49 UTC

against Per Clucky, anyway.

Josh: he/they

12-05-2020 10:12:39 UTC

Yeah I’m just going to against this as Clucky is right. I would be interested in a broader discussion about action intervals though. Most players log in at least once a day, so daily actions should be good enough for players to see and respond to each others’s actions, but it does feel like a medium tier for powerful actions that would unbalance the game if they could be performed 30 times a dynasty, but which aren’t so powerful that they need to be very careful restricted.

Josh: he/they

12-05-2020 10:12:53 UTC

*does feel like we need a

Kevan: he/him

12-05-2020 11:22:09 UTC

I think daily actions feel about right for giving the sense that a game is happening. If I log in of a morning and my two proposal slots are still in the queue, it’s nice to be able to think about doing something. If there’s literally nothing to do, it starts to feel like the game maybe isn’t a game.

I think slowing an action down is the least interesting way to balance it, particularly if (as with the Role Actions here) it’s a core action, as that means slowing the whole dynasty down. It’s easy to add other limitations or downsides to an action.

derrick: he/him

12-05-2020 14:02:25 UTC

against

Clucky: he/him

12-05-2020 15:15:07 UTC

Often I feel the problem with daily actions is the dynasty can turn into a bit of a grind. You need to log in every day just to do X in order to not fall behind.

But I guess maybe the right way around that is to make the daily actions more interesting so its not just “whoever did the most of these actions during the dynasty wins”

naught:

13-05-2020 12:42:55 UTC

against  Per Clucky.