Tuesday, December 03, 2019

Call for Judgment: allow non hidden actions

Fewer than a quorum not voting against. Failed 0 votes to 3 by Kevan.

Adminned at 04 Dec 2019 09:02:27 UTC

Replace “Any Battle Actions which the Monster has performed and which they couldn’t have performed without Hidden Monstrosities shall be as if they had never happened, with the exception that the Monster shall remain unable to claim Hidden Monstrosities. ” with

Any Monster Battle Actions which are defined by a hidden monstrosity that the Monster has performed and which they couldn’t have performed without having Hidden Monstrosities shall be as if they had never happened, with the exception that the Monster shall remain unable to claim Hidden Monstrosities.

Under one interpretation this rule means that any battle action performed by the monster that isn’t performbable using a hidden monstrosity never happened

Comments

TyGuy6:

03-12-2019 21:16:36 UTC

How is the new wording different?? It reads exactly like the old wording, to me.

card:

03-12-2019 21:22:36 UTC

Because it allows monsters to take actions that aren’t defined by hidden monstrosities?

TyGuy6:

03-12-2019 21:32:50 UTC

I misread it when I thought it disallowed any Battle Action. I now think the “and which” phrasology makes it sufficiently clear that it’s only those actions you couldn’t have taken without hidden Monstrosities.

The Duke of Waltham: he/him

03-12-2019 21:42:25 UTC

Ah, so that’s what this is all about. At least in this respect, I think the rule is already perfectly clear.

card:

03-12-2019 21:51:41 UTC

It doesn’t say “without having” so it opens up interpretation onto without what is being referred to as without. Is it “without using” etc

TyGuy6:

03-12-2019 21:58:05 UTC

Oh, ok, I missed that you added “having”. Still, I think I am ok with the “having” being implicit, here. Otherwise, you could really go down the rabbit hole with these conjunctions.

The Duke of Waltham: he/him

03-12-2019 22:02:14 UTC

Actually, it doesn’t even matter here. You could equally read the sentence as “Any Battle Actions which the Monster has performed and which they couldn’t have performed without using Hidden Monstrosities” or as “Any Battle Actions which the Monster has performed and which they couldn’t have performed without having Hidden Monstrosities”; the end result is that the Battle Actions shall be as if they had never happened provided that a) the Monster has performed a Battle Action that required having and/or using a Hidden Monstrosity, and b) the Monster did not have and/or use a Hidden Monstrosity. For the purposes of Battle Actions not relying on Hidden Monstrosities, the difference is immaterial (and the intention of the rule’s drafter was that there is no difference at all).

The Duke of Waltham: he/him

03-12-2019 22:05:23 UTC

And of course the “and which” mentioned by TyGuy above is crucial: the Battle Actions that shall be as if they had never happened are specifically those that would have required having (or using, if you prefer) Hidden Monstrosities.

The Duke of Waltham: he/him

03-12-2019 23:31:54 UTC

against

TyGuy6:

03-12-2019 23:49:28 UTC

against

card:

04-12-2019 03:50:21 UTC

against