Thursday, January 28, 2021

Proposal: Bear Business

self-killed—Clucky

Adminned at 29 Jan 2021 23:16:27 UTC

Add a subrule of Bears called “Moots”:

A Proposal with “[Bear Moot]” in the title that is posted by a Bear is a Bear Moot. These are Proposals, except:
* If the Proposal would change the Ruleset outside of “Bears” or its subrules, or Gamestate outside of the “Bears” Treaty Appendix, it can be failed by any Emperor, including non-Bears, at any time.
* A VETO vote from the Den Mother on a Bear Moot vetoes it.
* The eligible voting population consists of Bears: only votes from Bears are valid on a Bear Moot, and Quorum for determining if a Bear Moot is Popular or Unpopular is a quorum of Bears.

Comments

Clucky: he/him

28-01-2021 02:40:32 UTC

I like it, but I do not think eliminated bears should be able to be part of a bear moot bear moots are for the living

Clucky: he/him

28-01-2021 02:42:18 UTC

...actually. I’m not sure this works. If Kevan is not a signatory to this rule then he is just voting on a proposal that happens to have Bear Moot in the title and there is nothing that says he can’t do that

I think we need to make bear moots explicitly not proposals to avoid imposters crashing our party

Bucky:

28-01-2021 02:42:30 UTC

Hmm, this doesn’t actually allow the Den Mother to cast VETO votes.

It doesn’t take into account that the Den Mother can be removed between vetoing and adminning. Or maybe it does, and the intent is that the proposal remains vetoed. It seems to me, though, that ousting the Den Mother should nullify any hanging vetoes.

Clucky: he/him

28-01-2021 02:55:41 UTC

I think to fix this, we need to clarify that Den Moots are *not* proposals, they are just resolved in the same way that proposals are resolved.

Then, while non bears could still cast votes, the den moot could only be resolved by a person who signs the rule and thus counts the votes the right way.

might not be enough time to fix in this iteration. but we can certainly workshop the proper wording and try again

Clucky: he/him

28-01-2021 04:12:32 UTC

past the time to fix it… sorry pokes but unless Bucky rules that “The eligible voting population consists of Bears: only votes from Bears are valid on a Bear Moot, and Quorum for determining if a Bear Moot is Popular or Unpopular is a quorum of Bears.” applies even if the admin admining a proposal isn’t a signatory, gonna have to vote against

Bucky:

28-01-2021 04:53:24 UTC

Worse, “an Emperor who is not a Signatory to a Treaty is not required to follow its provisions”, so non-Bears can vote just fine on a [Bear Moot] proposal. This guts the intent of the proposal.

against

Darknight: he/him

28-01-2021 06:40:59 UTC

against

Raven1207: he/they

28-01-2021 06:45:48 UTC

against

Kevan: he/him

28-01-2021 09:48:51 UTC

against

pokes:

28-01-2021 12:40:11 UTC

against s/k

Brendan: he/him

28-01-2021 17:30:28 UTC

This does make me want to create a Bulls Treaty once my proposal quota frees up.