Tuesday, February 04, 2025

Proposal: Cast open the stable doors

WIthdrawn. Failed by JonathanDark.

Adminned at 04 Feb 2025 15:18:50 UTC

Make the following rules Mutable: Agendas, Spies, Rogues, Focus, by changing the {I} in their titles to an {M}.

Add two $ signs to the end of each sentence in the third paragraph of the rule Focus, and to the end of the last sentence of the first paragraph of the same rule.

If the rule Rogues has more than one paragraph, add two $ signs to the end of each sentence in its fourth paragraph.

Add the following to the end of the first paragraph of the rule Spies {M}:

The identity of a Spy, if one exists, is an immutable game variable $$.

: D

Comments

ais523:

04-02-2025 08:55:08 UTC

This should probably clarify that the {I} in the title should be changed to {M} – otherwise there’s more than one way to do the transmutation.

Agendas won’t function correctly if mutable (scoring the agenda wouldn’t produce triumphs). For the others, I’m not immediately sure what the consequences would be.

SingularByte: he/him

04-02-2025 09:17:05 UTC

Focus is fine, I think, because the effects of Swift only apply on a successful heist roll so it doesn’t fall foul of the vault. Focus itself becomes a mutable variable.

Rogues get a bit janky. They function to an extent, but Roll Calls fail to do anything and they don’t lose targets when they lose Rogue.

Spies fail to function as changing that spy’s triumphs involves setting a non-mutable variable. You can still have a spy, they just don’t do anything.

ais523:

04-02-2025 09:41:28 UTC

OK, so a) the Focus rule functions correctly unmodified if Mutable, but b) it’s only two edits away from being a trivial source of infinite actions (you break the “performing an action with focus decreases your focus” and the “you can’t do two swift actions in a row”, then spend the same focus point repeatedly forever). As such I’m going to vote against this, otherwise the dynasty would turn into a huge mess of everyone trying to use the same trivial game-winning scam at once.

Josh: he/they

04-02-2025 10:37:35 UTC

Happy to add dollar signs to sentences tactically - if anyone has any sentences they would like protected then please flag.

ais523:

04-02-2025 11:03:40 UTC

The second sentence of “Focus” would need at least three (which prevents acting swiftly twice in a row); the sentences that make actions Swift would need at least two. Basically anything else that manipulates Focus values would probably need one or two.

However, making Focus mutable is very likely to be a big advantage for the larger team; there are a huge number of potential ways to get unlimited Swift actions (subject to the “can’t act swiftly twice in a row” rule which is the most vital part of the rule to protect), and Focus is the main reward for being on the smaller team. If Focus doesn’t end up completely full of dollar signs, a 5-player team’s optimal plan would probably be to break Focus to let everyone take double actions, then use their other 7-8 actions to score, and there is very little that a smaller team could do to compete with that. (I note that you’re on the larger team at the moment!)

The other non-Focus rules you’re planning to make Mutable wouldn’t function properly if Mutable and would likely need substantial rewrites to work in that context (typically because they manipulate Triumphs directly).

ais523:

04-02-2025 11:09:02 UTC

@Josh: Your recent edits to this proposal really don’t help, and some of them don’t make sense. For example, you’ve changed Spies to define an immutable variable – but if it does that, it won’t be able to change the variable it defines, so appointing a Spy will be impossible.

Agendas also becomes entirely useless under this change because its main purpose is as a way to score Triumph points, which are an immutable variable.

Josh: he/they

04-02-2025 11:37:19 UTC

I’m gonna withdraw this because I don’t really have time to think about it today but I’ll encourage others to consider picking up the baton, as for a dynasty about changing the dynastic ruleste directly we are currently being very conservative about which bits of it we’re letting people touch in any way at all

against

ais523:

04-02-2025 11:49:23 UTC

I do agree that it would be nice for more of the ruleset to be mutable. But most of the immutable rules are that way for a reason – I think the solution may just be to enact more mutable rules.