Tuesday, November 01, 2011

Call for Judgment: Clarify Emperor self-kill

Times out and fails 6-10. -coppro

Adminned at 03 Nov 2011 17:40:21 UTC

In the rule “Special Proposal Voting”, replace:

The Vote will count as the same as the Emperor’s Vote.

with:

The Vote will count as the same as the Emperor’s Vote, but never counts as a self-kill.

 

Self-kills take effect immediately, but DEFERENTIALs are resolved retroactively: the value of a DEFERENTIAL vote can depend on a later vote by the Emperor.  If the author of a proposal (or a representee - the wording is the same, “votes AGAINST”) votes DEFERENTIAL on it, does the vote count as a self-kill (a) never, (b) only if the Emperor has previously voted AGAINST, or (c) retroactively if the Emperor later votes AGAINST?  I think this is ambiguous.  Since the Emperor can just veto the proposal anyway, this CfJ would make it “never”.

This fix would help my pending proposal, but the ambiguity has existed for a long time; when ais523 was the Emperor,
<CallForJudgment> I know I’ve done against s/k on other people’s proposals before now, and it lead to an argument

(I’m curious what the argument was, incidentally, but it would be difficult to search for that - anyone have a link?)

It would not break “More VM Cleanup!”, because that specifies a replacement for the entire rule in question.

Comments

ais523:

01-11-2011 11:31:18 UTC

for

Amnistar: he/himIdle

01-11-2011 12:20:43 UTC

against  should be a proposal. If a player votes def and emperor votes against makes sense for it to be a self kill.

southpointingchariot: Idle

01-11-2011 12:56:05 UTC

for

Prince Anduril: Idle

01-11-2011 13:22:20 UTC

against Per Amnistar

flurie: Idle

01-11-2011 14:11:14 UTC

against agree that it should be a proposal. Since we’re in a metadynasty, this isn’t even currently applicable, so it feels like you’re just getting out of using one of your proposal slots for this.

Pavitra: Idle

01-11-2011 15:51:59 UTC

against per Amnistar

Bucky: Idle

01-11-2011 16:01:52 UTC

against per Amnistar

Spitemaster: Idle

01-11-2011 17:49:58 UTC

against Per Aminstar

SingularByte: he/him

01-11-2011 18:38:58 UTC

against

eelpout: Idle

01-11-2011 19:56:05 UTC

against yes, agreed.

ChronosPhaenon: Idle

01-11-2011 20:44:35 UTC

against

arthexis: he/himIdle

02-11-2011 00:45:58 UTC

against

BellEt: Idle

02-11-2011 03:11:25 UTC

against

scshunt: Idle

02-11-2011 04:50:46 UTC

for because I don’t think emperor self-kill works. This may be quite relevant given our self-kill mechanic and anyone’s ability to pay 2SP to make the government vote against a proposal.

arthexis: he/himIdle

02-11-2011 21:47:41 UTC

for CoV

Shadowclaw: Idle

03-11-2011 12:54:23 UTC

for