Thursday, April 19, 2007

Proposal: Clean-up

Quorumed: 6-2
Proposer:  24
Voters (Axeling, Clucky, Amnistar, Seebo, BobTHJ, Chronos, Joe): 8
All other Actives: 4
Enactor: 6

Adminned at 19 Apr 2007 21:29:16 UTC

Repeal the rule known as “Amendments”.

I can see that this might once have had a point, but if a player proposes something, then amends it, everyone was to vote on it three times: Once in the original, once for the amendment, and once for the new proposal. Merely self-killing a proposal and proposing it again only takes 2. The only conceivable use is if a player already has two active proposals out, and the amended is stuck in the queue, but that’s an extremely obscure use. Worse yet,  how a amendment is considered passed is undefined. That is an Extremely bad thing.

Comments

Clucky: he/him

19-04-2007 17:04:35 UTC

for

Amnistar: he/him

19-04-2007 17:16:58 UTC

against

The entire purpose of the rule was for that obscure incident actually.  When there is, at any time, an active proposal queue, it is possible for you to end up with both your proposals in use.  The purpose for amendments was to make people A.) More likely to propose, without fear of losing proposal slots, and B.) To repropose rules that have support, but need refinement.

And how an amendment is considered passed is incredibly defined!  “The pending proposal receives at least Quorum/2 votes FOR and the Amendment is considered passed.”

Now, if you mean what happens when an amendment is passed, you’re right, that’s why it’s in there as a dynastic rule, so that changes can be made to the process.

BobTHJ:

19-04-2007 17:37:41 UTC

against I personally find the Amendment system to be quite confusing and overly complicated (after using it once).

I think a much better variation would be “Whenever a Lifeform self-kills a Proposal, that Proposal is removed from the Proposal queue” or some such (that was off the top of my head, so it may not jive with the rules). This way, you could SK a proposal and immediatly re-post a new version.

BobTHJ:

19-04-2007 17:38:00 UTC

Oops, that was supposed to be a for

Amnistar: he/him

19-04-2007 17:53:14 UTC

that’s another method to do it, and if people like that one better, than that’s great!  I’m all for it.

ChronosPhaenon:

19-04-2007 18:42:56 UTC

for I don’t like it. It creates more problems than it solves. And, please, note I’m the most prolific proposer around here these days.

Rodney:

19-04-2007 19:10:50 UTC

Even assuming both A and B are true, how much is it worth? The overall benefit would be very small, while the rule takes up space and confuses pontial new players.

As for whether or not passing is defined, consider this sentence: “It has been open for voting for at least 48 hours, it has more than 1 valid vote, more than half of its votes are FOR, and it has not been vetoed or self-killed.” If it has been open for 48 hours, has more that one vote and half are in favor does not mean that it has not been vetoed or self-killed.

And if we assume that “And the” is an “In which case”, it still breaks, as it refers to the pending proposal‘s votes, not the actual amendment’s votes.

Axeling:

19-04-2007 21:35:52 UTC

against (trivial), since I think this should be combined with your other proposal.  I’ll change my vote if there are enough other (trivial)s.

Amnistar: he/him

19-04-2007 23:04:12 UTC

for (trivial)

joe371:

20-04-2007 03:07:05 UTC

for (trivial)

Seebo:

20-04-2007 04:18:28 UTC

against (trivial)