So “Pre-Collapse Technology” costs you Ingenuity at first, but “learning” it multiple times eventually gives you more Ingenuity than you put in? I just wanted to highlight how unbalanced this could become, but maybe it’s offset by how much you would have to invest in order to make it “profitable”. At x3, you would break even by having gained 6 Ingenuity over multiple Innovations for the 6 that you had put in up to that point.

Wreckage Clearing Teams is also huge when quorum is only 4.

I’d be interested in a version of wreckage clearing that changed ties to resolving as FOR rather than AGAINST

@JonathanDark i do think that’s going to require too many Innovate actions to be worthwhile! it’s mainly intended as a prerequisite ability that gives you back a little portion of its cost when you earn it.

@Josh that’s not a bad idea, but i’m really scratching my head over how i would even begin to word that in any sort of concise manner, considering how the Popular/Unpopular definitions work!

actually, here’s an attempt: “counts as having 1 fewer AGAINST” instead of “counts as having 1 additional FOR”?

i don’t /think/ this has any undesired side effects, but i’m also a little rushed so i may not have fully thought through the implications!

I’m not following the above discussion of Pre-Collapse Technology. To me it reads as if the “this” either applies to the instance being bought, or to other instances of the same Innovation (as if it was granting you a power of “whenever you learn an Innovation called Pre-Collapse Technology…”; which wouldn’t trigger for itself). I’m not sure how it can be both, if that’s the reading being made.

A clarification might be needed that effects are either instant or persistent, but that instants can’t be re-triggered after their initial application.

from me; 1:1 Food:Order is very strong, and Wrecking Crew also puts my hackles up; a pool of 2 would require unanimous opposition to have their Commons proposals fail, assuming an Imperial DEF. That said, we might want to consider how strong we want Innovations to be, as overpowered Innovations could be fun if they are consistently so and are self-balancing.

@Kevan i did intend it to just be that when you buy it you get have the price back, and its sole benefit is as a prerequisite for other innovations; but i think JDark’s interpretation holds some water :0

@Josh i am in favour of Innovations being pretty strong! one thing that’s worth noting is that these are all very costly, requiring a few lucky days or more probably over a week to earn as the rules stand now. 2 Ingenuity and then a Govern action is three Dilemmas minimum, and that’s assuming the downsides on each of those Outcomes are things you’re fine with :0

also, Fear of Oseele is definitely meant to be strong; the unwritten downside for it is the fact Oseele’s effect on Gather actions is strongly negative! (i do think that Food is generally more valuable than Order, though)

I think each of these Innovations should be split up and voted on their own merits. As it is, I don’t think it’s wise to try to get agreement on all of them in one shot. Maybe group the Societal ones in one Proposal and the Technological ones in another.