Monday, January 09, 2012

Proposal: Criminal characteristics

Reaches quorum, 8-1. Josh

Adminned at 09 Jan 2012 23:54:52 UTC

Create a new dynastic rule, “Swag”:

Criminals have Wealth, Respect, and Firepower, non-negative integral statistics tracked in the GNDT, each defaulting to 500.

As an Assisted Action, a Criminal can Rob a Bank. This increases their Heat by 1, and their Wealth by the square of the number of complete hours since any Criminal last Robbed a Bank (or since this rule was enacted, if no Criminal has ever Robbed a Bank).

As an Assisted Action, a Criminal can Pull Off a Daring Heist. This increases their Respect by the square of the number of complete hours since any Criminal last Pulled Off a Daring Heist (or since this rule was enacted, if no Criminal has ever Pulled Off a Daring Heist).

As an Assisted Action, a Criminal can Smuggle Armaments. This increases their Firepower by the square of the number of complete hours since any Criminal last Smuggled Armaments (or since this rule was enacted, if no Criminal has ever Smuggled Armaments).

Create a new dynastic rule, “Heat”:

Criminals can end up being wanted by the police, or other similar law enforcement organisations. This is tracked in the GNDT as a non-negative integer, Heat, that defaults to 1.
There is a number, the Police Cybervigilance Number, initially 0, tracked in the Don’s Heat field in the GNDT.

As an Assisted Action, a Criminal can Hack the Police Computers. This increases the Police Cybervigilance Number by 1, and if it sets it to a square number, also decreases the Heat of every Criminal with positive Heat by 1.

As an Assisted Action, a Criminal with no Heat can Perform Community Service. This increases their Heat to 1, and empties their Former Partner list.

A bunch of statistics to start us off. Apart from the “wanted” statistic that has a use in this proposal, I have no strong plans about what to use the others for, but I’m sure you’ll have plenty of ideas of your own.

By the way, this rule shows off a couple of mechanics I want to try out (the ramped-timing rule that means that delaying an action longer gives you more reward, and is likely to be mostly immune to timing scams for that reason; and the diminishing returns on hacking the police computers).

Performing community service is a little weird; the concept’s that since you’re no longer wanted, your partners are no longer being tracked. I can’t think of a good flavour reason for the Heat returning to 1, but it’s obviously necessary for gameplay reasons.



01-09-2012 18:00:07 UTC

“As an Assisted Action, a Criminal with no Heat can Perform Community Service. This increases their Heat to 1, and empties their Former Partner list.”

Increases their Heat to 1? What if their Heat is more than 1?


01-09-2012 18:01:13 UTC

Oh, stupid misread. Sorry.



01-09-2012 18:02:04 UTC

against I think there are too many possible bugs

First, I dislike that you don’t get any bonus for assissting someone. Both criminals should be rewarded. There is currently no reason for me to help someone else. They’ll just add me and cash in.

Secondly, I think squares might grow a little too fast. Its a cool mechanic of “longer wait, bigger reward, but someone might steal it out from under you” but I’m not sold.

Thirdly, any actions that are not daily/weekly actions are open to abuse. You need friends to abuse this one, but its still open to abuse.

Most importantly, Perform Community Service has a race condition. Does the list get cleared and then the partner added, or does the partner get added and then the list is clear?

If it is the second one, with the “you can be your own partner” bug it allows you clear your list without consequence whenever you want.



01-09-2012 18:05:12 UTC

Oh, I misread Perform Community Service too. It still has flaws though.

You can only Hack the Police computers O(n^2) times until everyones partner list is clogged up. Theoretically, the game could get locked down because no one can work with anyone else and no one has the lack of heat to clear their list. So i’m still against.


01-09-2012 18:20:37 UTC

for The bugs can be clared up.


01-09-2012 18:23:24 UTC

The reason you’d help someone else is so that they’d help you in the future (presumably, with a prearranged agreement). You’re going to need to actually work with others to arrange deals, not just flavourwise work with others (and the bar on repeating partners prevents this being done trivially via faction formation). It’s something that AFAIK hasn’t been tried before, so I decided to use a dynasty to see how it went.

Also, the fact that everything eventually locks up (until someone joins or unidles) doesn’t bother me, because it seems likely to be quite a way in the future. If it’s within the next couple of months or so, it’d make a nice natural end to the dynasty, although I doubt it’ll happen that soon unless the pace of the dynasty is very fast.


01-09-2012 18:56:20 UTC



01-09-2012 18:56:30 UTC

I’m still not sold on the mechanic.

If the dynasty requires teamwork in the sense that I just need to signal “I’m willing to work with Bucky” and then Bucky can do something that benefits both of us, that seems reasonable.

But for this, it takes more communication. I also need to contact Bucky so that he’ll help me later (once our lists are cleared, which we need to go find even more help for).

All it really does is greatly reward players who spend a lot of time on IRC.

Furthermore, in order to work really well everyone needs to be actively playing. In any dynasty, you only see like half the players really doing that. I just think before too long we’ll have to spend send so much time hacking the police computers that nothing fun will ever get done. It’ll turn into “well, we need someone to hack the computers to reduce our heat so we can reset our list, but I’d rather use my actions to generate money and have someone else do the hacking”. Stalling becomes to optimal move, and no one has any fun.


01-09-2012 19:06:06 UTC

If something like that happens, I’m sure we can propose to help avoid the stall. And I’m open to proposals that help improve the situation, as you see it. If you don’t like a rule, there’s no reason why you can’t change it…


01-09-2012 19:10:48 UTC

idle against; I dislike the idea that the actions are one-sided as this means I can never really safely partner with someone with an expectation of future benefit.

I’ll vote for to get quorum if needed and it’s clear it will pass.


01-09-2012 19:21:01 UTC

If you provide the benefits to the helper as well, I’d probably be willing to support this. I feel like you could also allow room for bigger hiests that way (like, if I work with coppro and coppro works with Bucky and Bucky works with me, and none of us are on each others lists, we could do a 3-way heist for Great Power).


01-09-2012 19:45:45 UTC

It seems that there’s quite some support for symmetrising this. I’m out of slots, but wouldn’t object to someone else making the proposal, and we’d see how it could go from there.


01-09-2012 20:06:28 UTC



01-09-2012 21:53:47 UTC

for I don’t like the symmetry idea.


01-10-2012 02:33:18 UTC



01-10-2012 03:38:29 UTC