BlogNomic: The First Dynasty of Desertfrog

It’d be like reading a book and learning the ending was torn out

This feels waaay too dangerous to be allowed.

Agreed, . There is the possibility of being locked into a paradoxical ruleset.

How so ovangle?

Plus there isn’t a victory condition yet anyway. Worse comes to it, this can always get repeled later

If that person would Declare victory by stating “This declaration of victory will pass if and only if it fails”, then it fails because it was posted before the 25th (without a vote) and it passes because it fails.

Sure you can veto it, but since it fails regardless of voting (including imperial vetos), it passes.

Or even better, “Victory shall be mine if this declaration of victory fails.”

If something fails it wouldn’t work. No rule ever triggers itself if it fails.

I have never seen a nomic allow something in a proposal to enact if said proposal, or DoV for that matter, fails.

There for theres no chance of a paradox being formed by this rule

Would you like to point out exactly where, in your ruleset, that is prohibited?

The only thing that stops me doing it currently is the following:

“The Declaration of Victory may be resolved after 24 hours, or after 12 hours if the Narrator has voted on it. Upon resolution, if a Quorum of Characters have voted on the DoV and more than half of those votes were in favour, then the DoV passes - otherwise the DoV fails, and if no other DoVs are still pending, the Hiatus ends.”

i.e. it can only pass before it fails. If it can fail before it passes, then the paradox is allowed.

In order for any part of a proposal to work it has to be enacted, i.e have enough votes. If a proposal fails, even if something in it says it would trigger, it does not. I had a proposal afew dynasties ago with a fail trigger that was ruled to not have been able to work. Plus a CfJ would render any attempts moot.

I’ll try again.

My declaration of victory is:
“This is the declaration of victory for ovangle, which states that ovangle has achieved victory and this declaration has passed if and only if this declaration fails.”

Now, usually, in order for the proposal to pass, this would require a quorom of characters to vote in favour of said proposal AND for the proposal to fail, which is an impossibility, so the declaration cannot pass.

If this proposal were passed, then all that would be required would be for it to fail, since it fails regardless of voting.

Nowhere does it say that a declaration of victory is a type of proposal and hence subject, or that victory needs to be triggered by the passing of a declaration of victory.

The DoV would fail but you would not win because, as I said, only if it was enacted would it have any effect. A failed DoV nulls the wording so even though it says you’d win if it fails it would not come into effect

Look at the ruleset. The only things that require enactment are proposals, and nowhere does it say that failing a proposal/DoV nulls the wording.

There. proposed a fix for your paradox lol. i still vote for this one

How about “The Ruleset and Gamestate can only be altered in manners specified by the Ruleset”. 

A failed proposal or DoV is not permitted to modify the Gamestate.  This means it cannot cause itself to be passed, or for a Character to achieve victory, or do anything else useful except where a Rule specifically deals with Failed Proposals.

(Oh, and .)

Very much on topic, I shall point out http://blognomic.com/archive/bwa_ha_hah/

Ovangle, you seem to be operating under the (incorrect) assumption that the mere act of putting the sentence “Victory shall be mine if this declaration of victory fails.” somehow makes that sentence true.

It’s perfectly consistent for such a declaration of victory to fail, and yet for victory to not be awarded its poster.

And that is because the text of a DoV has no effect on gamestate.  It is merely an explanation of why you believe you have achieved victory.