Friday, April 27, 2007

Declaration of Victory: Declaration of Victory

Fails 1-3—Axeling

Adminned at 28 Apr 2007 12:53:11 UTC

Here’s what I’m doing:

Advance Rapid Mutation

Upgrade any other trait. Choose a number X equal to my current Nourishment.

I of course fail my roll and lose all my Nourishment, therefore I die.

Each other Lifeform gains 3 Nourishment.

I pay 100 DNA Points and reset, then I upgrade Rapid Mutation and repeat the process 4 more times.

All lifeforms die of bloat.

I reset and win the game as I am the only alive lifeform.

Comments

Clucky:

04-27-2007 16:38:33 UTC

Two issues:

1) You only had 300 DNA. You can only reset three times.

2) You need to rebuy rapid mutation each time. Thats more DNA costs.

3) When everyone else dies, you gain 18 nurtiton and die yourself.

Um… yeah. I am gonna reset everything now.

BobTHJ:

04-27-2007 16:42:50 UTC

Every time I reset, my DNA points are set back to the Gene Pools DNA points (per the Energy rule), so I have enough DNA.

Also, I am already dead at the point in time where the other lifeforms die (as my suicide is what kills them). My nourishment is reset to 10 when I reset to alive. Read the Death rule.

Clucky:

04-27-2007 16:46:49 UTC

Wait… noo… I see

Clucky:

04-27-2007 16:55:37 UTC

I can’t actually reverse everything. But I would argue that you do not start with 2 energy. The rules never say you do.

Clucky:

04-27-2007 16:57:57 UTC

against If my CfJ fails, then propose again because your victory was legit. If the CfJ passes, then this DoV shouldn’t pass.

Amnistar:

04-27-2007 17:45:48 UTC

against As you do not start with enough DNA to gain Rapid Mutation again.  Cost 400 DNA to upgrade to have it, you start the game with 319 DNA, not enough.

Amnistar:

04-27-2007 17:49:01 UTC

Plus you’d need an additional 100 DNA to respawn after you die, which means you’d need to start with 500 DNA

Amnistar:

04-27-2007 17:53:57 UTC

I also doubt that you had the 800 DNA 2 Complexity which were required to advance the trait from Inactive to ACtive.

Amnistar:

04-27-2007 17:55:58 UTC

Wow…I must be tired…the D looked like a 0.  Okay then, so keeping in mind then that it’s only 40 DNA to upgrade Rapid Mutation, allow me to look at what occured…

Amnistar:

04-27-2007 18:05:49 UTC

As much as I hate to admit it, I think this is legal… for Well done Bob.

BobTHJ:

04-27-2007 18:12:09 UTC

for
Oops, I guess I have to vote for this as well.

Amnistar:

04-27-2007 20:48:36 UTC

against See Axelings Post (whenever he makes it)

Axeling:

04-27-2007 20:50:50 UTC

against This was a very good attempt.  I was seriously about to vote for this, until I realized the following: your complexity is not high enough to do it more than twice.

Here’s why:
From Rule Complexity we have

Each Lifeform has a value called “Complexity”, which is tracked in the GNDT. A new Lifeform begins with Complexity equal to:

  * C - 1, where C is the Complexity of the active Lifeform with the lowest Complexity, or
  * 1

whichever is greater. A Lifeform may not take any action that would raise any of eir Evolutionary Variables to a value greater than eir Complexity, nor reduce eir Complexity to a value less than any of the values of eir Evolutionary Variables, nor may a Lifeform have a larger number of Traits listed on eir Creature Page than their complexity, nor reduce eir Complexity to a value less than the number of Traits on eith Creature Page.

So, you advance the Rapid Mutation and kill yourself, raising everyone else’s Nourishment by 3.  Then, you come back with sufficient energy to repeat the process (still unsettled, but I’m inclined to give you this based on precedent).  So far so good; however, to come back from the dead, you must reset all values to those of a new Lifeform.  From above, a new Lifeform has Complexity equal to C-1, to a minimum of 1.  With two lifeforms with Complexity 4, that means you come back with 3.  Then you buy Rapid Mutation, bringing you down to 2, and kill yourself.  That’s another 3 to everyone.  Then you bring yourself back again.  Since you count as an active lifeform, you have to use the value of 2 for C, which means you come back with 1 Complexity.  Now, you cannot buy Rapid Mutation again, since that would reduce your Complexity to 0, which would make your Brain Size and number of traits both greater than your Complexity.  So you can perform the action at most 2 times, which means that everyone is still alive.

BobTHJ:

04-27-2007 21:05:52 UTC

against
I stand corrected. I did not consider that I myself would count as the active Lifeform with the lowest Complexity.

...and I only went over this about fifty times in my head first to make sure I was doing it right…

Clucky:

04-27-2007 21:07:38 UTC

against

Yeah, sorry Bob. Nice try. You nearly got a loophole into my dynasty, which I was trying desperately to avoid.

BobTHJ:

04-27-2007 21:08:06 UTC

I guess I can’t withdraw this, but it should fail after 12 hours.

I will start dreaming up another way to win :)

When this fails, I will reverse the changes to the GNDT (unless someone beats me to it)

Clucky:

04-27-2007 21:14:57 UTC

Anyways, at what stage does the game get reset to?

Bob killed eimself—so everyone gains 3 nutrition.

Bob killed eimself again. E started at 3, after spending one, e is down to two, that is one. So everyone gains three nutrition.

Bob cannot kill eimself again.

Thus everyone should lose 9 nutrtion and Bob should have eir complexity set to one.

Am I correct here?

Note that this puts Axeling at 19 nutrition. And everyone is so close to the top that if one person other than axeling somehow dies, everyone will die. Someone can easily do what Bob just did to trigger this. So we have around 9 hours to stop this from happening <_<

Clucky:

04-27-2007 21:21:32 UTC

Eh. You know. I do not see how a CfJ can legally fix the problem here. The CfJ would have to change rapid mutation, but there is no room for judgment there. I dont see how a CfJ could technically be used there.

I would rather see Bob win by this loop hole than anyone else. So I’ll go back to for unless someone can convince me that nuking the loophole trait is well within the grounds of a CfJ.

BobTHJ:

04-27-2007 21:25:57 UTC

for
For the reasons Clucky stated above.

BobTHJ:

04-27-2007 21:48:45 UTC

Actually, after some consideration, I may indeed be able to pull off a legal victory (correct me if I am wrong):

After repeating the above steps as much as possible and resetting with 1 Complexity, I Evolute Facial Features 1. I then Upgrade one of the Simple Eyes/Ears/Nose traits, which allows me to bypass the complexity rule. I rest, then Upgrade Rapid Mutation. I DNA into Energy and then Upgrade any other trait to kill myself once more. This kills Amnistar and chain reaction kills everyone.

Clucky:

04-27-2007 22:02:28 UTC

Um yeah, thats legal. But you didn’t do it that way. You can’t go back in time and say “this is what I would’ve done”.

You didn’t win. The issue now is, can we fix the loophole. If the answer to that is no, then we should give you the victory because its only fair. If the answer is yes, then we plug the loophole and move on.

BobTHJ:

04-27-2007 22:21:33 UTC

That is true, although if this DOV fails and the loophole has not yet been plugged, then I can pick up where I left off and complete those actions for a victory.

Axeling:

04-27-2007 22:39:26 UTC

As far as I know, there’s no restriction on what a CfJ may accomplish.  They have been used to do quite far-ranging things before.  I will change my vote if it looks like the loophole can’t or won’t be plugged.

Amnistar:

04-27-2007 22:40:51 UTC

for I’m fine with him winning, I think he deserves it.

Clucky:

04-27-2007 22:43:40 UTC

The problem is, eir DoV wasn’t legal. E messed up. The plug currently doesn’t plug it, so my vote remains, but I still think it would be best to fix it all.

Clucky:

04-27-2007 22:44:29 UTC

Nm, the thing seems to plug it. What we now need to do is use other DoVs to sustain Haitus until the CfJ passes.

Clucky:

04-27-2007 22:45:11 UTC

against

Amnistar:

04-28-2007 02:48:18 UTC

against