Saturday, May 20, 2017

Call for Judgment: Fixing Atomic Actions

Times out 1-3. Failed by pokes.

Adminned at 22 May 2017 21:05:56 UTC

Add the following to the “Atomic Actions” rule:

If a Manager times out an Atomic Action (i.e. starting the steps and not finishing them during the hour long window, thus allowing them to be reverted) they may not take that Atomic Action a second time for a week.

If an atomic action is redone because part of it was done illegally or incorrectly, any dice rolls that were performed on the GNDT during the first attempt must be reused in subsequent attempts rather than rolling new dice.

Comments

Madrid:

20-05-2017 21:23:17 UTC

Yes, I agree with you with that a formal solution like this would be good, definitely.

However, this could be scammed by sabotaging another player’s Atomic Action midway, or worse, someone could just just ...forget a step. Or do a step wrong. And not notice it until later, in which case, they wouldn’t have finished their Atomic Action and get extremely penalized.

The penalty angle is good though, as a deterrent, this just seems a bit too extreme on possible innocents though imo.

Oracular rufio:

20-05-2017 21:27:51 UTC

If you do a step wrong or skip a step it counts as an illegal atomic action, is reverted, and can be redone.  It doesn’t count as timed out.  I made it very specific what timed out meant.

Madrid:

20-05-2017 21:48:36 UTC

This enters a bit into a super interesting topic of the nature of illegal/legal and invalid/valid and what their formal power/abilities/traits are.

-If I make a post in the Proposal category, with the intent of it being a Proposal, does that make it a Proposal? Of course.

-Now, if I make a post in the DoV category with the intent of it being a Proposal, does that make it a Proposal? Or a DoV? Or have I made both a Proposal of a sort which counts towards my slots of Proposals and a DoV?

Alright. With that in mind, imagine we have an Atomic Action with a step in the middle that says “Step 3: Make a comment in the GNDT with your favorite Color”.

-If I make a comment with “Potato” (in error/accident), but with the intent for it to be Step 3, does that count as me having performed Step 3 or have I just made a bogus comment with no consideration from the Ruleset?

—-

That aside, with “If you do a step wrong or skip a step it counts as an illegal atomic action, is reverted, and can be redone”, I can then just intentionally do a step wrong and have it “count as an illegal atomic action” and then have it “be redone”, and reset atomic actions that way even faster than Timeouts.

Oracular rufio:

20-05-2017 21:56:11 UTC

“However, despite this, official posts can never be changed from one category to another, or changed to be a different sort of official post, if they have been posted for more than fifteen minutes.”

If you post a DoV, it’s a DoV, regardless of what you meant to do.  If you change it to a proposal before 15 minutes are up, it’s a proposal, regardless of what you meant to do.  If you change it after 15 minutes are up, it is still a DoV.  What does this have to do with this post?

“If I make a comment with “Potato” (in error/accident), but with the intent for it to be Step 3, does that count as me having performed Step 3 or have I just made a bogus comment with no consideration from the Ruleset?”

You’ve declared your favorite color to be “Potato”.  “Potato” is conceivably a color, c.f. “Orange”.

“That aside, with “If you do a step wrong or skip a step it counts as an illegal atomic action, is reverted, and can be redone”, I can then just intentionally do a step wrong and have it “count as an illegal atomic action” and then have it “be redone”, and reset atomic actions that way even faster than Timeouts.”

That’s actually relevant.  I think it should be part of the rule that you cannot redo dice rolls but must use previously rolled values if you are redoing them because of an illegal action elsewhere in the action.

Sphinx:

21-05-2017 06:18:36 UTC

Do we even need atomic actions to timeout? What about forcing them to complete?

Oracular rufio:

21-05-2017 07:08:52 UTC

Yeah, that might be a good idea - if it times out anyone can complete the action, but not redo any previously taken steps.  Then it would only have to be redone if someone messed up.

pokes:

21-05-2017 13:03:03 UTC

against

card:

21-05-2017 16:20:43 UTC

against If the dice were the incorrect step, such as getting a teams power wrong, then you can’t reroll it using correct ones.

Sphinx:

22-05-2017 20:44:59 UTC

against Also I dislike the week-long punishment if they time out for some legitimate reason.