Monday, June 21, 2021

Proposal: forget the scalpels, bring the sledgehammer!

Timed out and failed, 2-6. Josh

Adminned at 23 Jun 2021 08:39:27 UTC

In the rule “Lair Actions”, remove the paragraph starting with “Devastation is”, as well as the paragraph beginning with “Machination is”, if one exists.
Append to the same rule:

Devastation is a Power Action with a cost of 7 plus the total Shadow scores of the Features in the selected Room’s Effect. The Vampire Lord carrying it out may select a Lit room that is not a Sepulchre or Cornerstone Chamber and collapse it: the room becomes Dark and loses its name, description, and effect.

In the rule “Unlife”, change the paragraph beginning with “If a Vampire Lord’s Puissance is above 10” to the following:

If a Vampire Lord’s Puissance is above 13, then that Vampire Lord is Bloodthirsty. While a Vampire Lord is Bloodthirsty, they may not perform any Power Actions not described in this sub-rule, except for Devastation.

we all seem to agree that devastation is going to cause problems in the long run; i think that this change makes devestation’s effects on the crypt much simpler n easier to recover from than the removal of features. plus it doesnt break flavour like renovating-while-bloodthirsty does, *and* it doesn’t discourage vampire lords from using expensive-but-easily-removed features! and there’s a bonus bit of slightly increasing the cap on puissance, bc imo the current window between 0 and 11 could use a smidge more breathing room :0


Josh: he/him

21-06-2021 08:35:09 UTC

An idle thought, rather than a specific response, is that this is a supply-side solution to a demand-side problem: the issue here is still that a lot of players aren’t really playing, for whatever reason. The Bloodthirsty cap is supposed to be forcing Vampire Lords to spend their Puissance rather than hoarding it, but, with a few exceptions, it appears not to be working. The solution here might require reviewing the sticks and carrots around spending Puissance, or maybe even making players who wish to stay active but don’t really want to play all that much dormant in some way.

Kevan: he/him

21-06-2021 08:56:47 UTC

We’re possibly in a bit of a holding pattern at the moment with Devastation being a strongish aggressive move: do you lash out at random (and make an enemy), throw the move away (and waste 7 Puissance) or wait to see if things change?

Clucky: he/him

21-06-2021 16:09:48 UTC

I’m not convinced devistation causes problems in the long run. An emptier crypt in the early rooms will make it easier for Richardo to get to rooms further in the crypt in the later game.

Josh: he/him

21-06-2021 16:20:11 UTC

Not unless there’s a way to boost his Energy; but that notwithstanding, it’s still the case at the moment that Crypt features are being destroyed far faster than they’re being created, so someone’s going to have to start building rooms to counterbalance the devastation soon if we’re to reach an equilibrium.

Clucky: he/him

21-06-2021 20:46:09 UTC

are they?? We’ve only seen like two devastations all game and lots of rooms added

Josh: he/him

21-06-2021 20:53:42 UTC

Brendan, Darknight, Jason, Kevan, Phil and pokes can all currently not do anything except Devastate.


21-06-2021 23:04:02 UTC


@Clucky: the basic issue is that although a) Devastation sucks as an action and it’s something that you probably wouldn’t do intentionally, b) many players are locked into being forced to use it and thus have to devastate something, c) I expect situations like this to re-occur later in the dynasty due to how many people are underestimating how much Puissance they need to spend to dodge the soft cap.

Most features don’t have a huge impact on the game, so Devastation will likely be reserved for the ones that do. The consequence is that we’ll end up with a map that’s mostly devoid of interest.

Clucky: he/him

21-06-2021 23:56:24 UTC

against destroying a whole room seems unfun

Clucky: he/him

22-06-2021 00:14:46 UTC

Also. Destroy a room next to the entrance, add new room with a glyph + Richardo von Nestor is Grievously Injured if he is not Agile for another 7 for a 25% chance of just getting 6 influence a turn seems rather strong. Yeah someone can shell out 11 to destroy it, but enough people get those up and you could lock out the whole game and have it just come down to random runs.

Kevan: he/him

22-06-2021 07:47:18 UTC

Frequently swapping out rooms doesn’t sit entirely well with the map-of-ancient-crypts mood of the game, and I think Clucky’s right that this would just see us thrashing the very centre of the map most of the time.


Josh: he/him

22-06-2021 08:24:20 UTC

against I agree with the principle of this proposal and the need to do something but I also agree with Kevan that making Devastation the same except that it destroys entire rooms rather than just features is hardly a nerf.

Chiiika: she/her

22-06-2021 10:20:14 UTC


Jason: he/him

22-06-2021 12:55:52 UTC


Brendan: he/him

22-06-2021 19:55:03 UTC