Saturday, August 07, 2021

Call for Judgment: General Trouble

Unpopular, 1-9. Josh

Adminned at 09 Aug 2021 07:35:56 UTC

Uphold the AA posted here as being legally created and applied.

Throughout the ruleset, replace “General” with “Player” except in part of the ruleset that says “and the #currentdynasty or #general channels”

Throughout the ruleset, replace “Leader” with “Emperor”

Place the game in Interregnum, with Jumble as the Emperor


Josh: he/they

07-08-2021 18:37:51 UTC

I believe that placing the game in interregnum (which is explicitly defined as the time between two dynasties) is impossible without the preceding dynasty having ended and is thus incompatible with having upheld the earlier AA.

I think it makes much more sense to accept that the earlier AA is invalid and uphold any business between now and then that needs upholding.

Clucky: he/him

07-08-2021 18:39:51 UTC

why is it impossible? Interregnum is a state the game can be in, just like Hiatus.

I really do not like the precedent of ignoring a weeks worth of gameplay

Josh: he/they

07-08-2021 18:48:45 UTC

Precedent is overrated, and in any case the overwhelming weight of precedent at the moment is in the other direction; if anything it’s occasionally worth asserting that the things that happen actually do happen rather than being magic-waved away.

Interregnum isn’t actually a status that a dynasty can have, like hiatus: hiatus is technically what an Interregnum is, except that an Interregnum is happening because a certain set of proximate conditions exist:

An Interregnum is the period between dynasties, after a DoV has been enacted and before an Ascension Address has been posted. During an Interregnum the game is in hiatus

If you don’t want to invalidate the last week of play then this CfJ needs to end the first co-regency of jumble and lemonfanta as if a DoV had passed; that would create an interregnum as an emergent property.

Clucky: he/him

07-08-2021 18:51:48 UTC

The fact that “Victory and Ascension” explicitly states “and the game enters an Interregnum.” and “the Interregnum ends” makes it seem to me like an Interregnum is a thing that needs to be explicitly entered and left and that definition is really just a description with no actual bearing on the rules, but instead just descripts what its used for.

Josh: he/they

07-08-2021 18:55:27 UTC

Well, I disagree, and as such will vote against


07-08-2021 19:08:47 UTC

I think “Place the game in Interregnum” works, but is an instruction to change the state of whether the game is in a dynasty or not, and therefore to change the dynastic history of which dynasties existed. It’s therefore non-obvious whether it a) ends the first coregency of jumble and lemonfanta, or b) causes it to never have started; either change to the dynastic history would be sufficient to comply with the instruction, and the proposal doesn’t give many hints as to which. (It doesn’t have any real effects in the short term, but may end up affecting the gamestate the next time we have a dynasty that cares about what previous dynasties existed, which is something we do every now and then.) Maybe it’s up to the enacting admin to decide?


07-08-2021 19:10:01 UTC

As this is vote-locked, I’m therefore against for a comparable reason to Josh: there are multiple plausible ways to interpret what this CFJ does when enacted, and I prefer CFJs to give more certainty about the gamestate.

Kevan: City he/him

07-08-2021 19:12:15 UTC

against Per Josh - given that “An Interregnum is the period between dynasties”, it’s unclear what the dynasties on either side would be at that point.

Clucky: he/him

07-08-2021 19:20:55 UTC

i mean as long as we have another dynasty, aren’t we between the The Fifteenth Dynasty of Josh and whatever dynasty is next?

as well as between the The Eighth Dynasty of Clucky and whatever dynasty is next?

Lulu: she/her

07-08-2021 19:24:45 UTC


lemon: she/her

08-08-2021 00:21:34 UTC


Darknight: he/him

08-08-2021 13:07:16 UTC


Raven1207: he/they

09-08-2021 02:04:27 UTC


Janet: she/her

09-08-2021 03:03:22 UTC


Chiiika: she/her

09-08-2021 07:22:39 UTC