Sunday, August 22, 2021

Proposal: Inevitable Increase In Complexity

Timed out and enacted, 5-2. Josh

Adminned at 25 Aug 2021 10:53:55 UTC

Amend the first sentence in the rule “The Veto List” that contains the word “Misfit” to “A proposal is a Misfit if it does not have all of the properties on the following list, known as the Mandate List” if it does not contain the word “Bill”, or “A Bill is a Misfit if it does not have all of the properties on the following list, known as the Mandate List” if it does.

Remove the oldest entry in the Mandate List.

Add the following entry to the top of the Mandate List:

It would, if enacted, increase the number of entries in the Mandate List.



22-08-2021 18:40:07 UTC

Nothing against your Proposal, but I hope we don’t end up with Proposals that just have a rider of something like “Add ‘The Proposal is a Proposal’ to the Mandate list” lol.


Clucky: he/him

22-08-2021 18:53:42 UTC

still feel pretty strongly that removing entries from the veto list should be a no-no and will vote against stuff that does that on principle, but because this is still in the edit window I’ll leave it open for changes


22-08-2021 18:57:16 UTC

Clucky, I feel the same way. This proposal both deliberately demonstrates the problem and adds a restriction to it.

Clucky: he/him

22-08-2021 19:01:41 UTC

How does it add a restriction?

You could have used this to simply adding a restriction that prevents you from removing items from the list. Instead, you set the precedent that removing items is okay, as long as your add enough other ones back.


22-08-2021 19:08:18 UTC

Removing an item and adding an item, under the proposed rule, is not substantially different from modifying and moving an existing item. But a strict no-deletions rule means you can still modify a rule into a completely unrelated rule. And I don’t think it’s a good idea to make the existing list entries completely immutable.

If you have a good way to prevent pseudo-removal, go ahead and propose it.

Clucky: he/him

22-08-2021 19:16:54 UTC

Not sure why I’d need to propose it. Its still in the edit window and simply adding something like “It removes or modifies an existing entry in the Mandate list” would fix the problem without the need for the extra song and dance


23-08-2021 03:02:27 UTC



23-08-2021 03:32:47 UTC

Explicit Author for

Raven1207: he/they

23-08-2021 04:26:13 UTC



23-08-2021 07:12:56 UTC


Clucky: he/him

23-08-2021 16:35:09 UTC


at best this does nothing except maybe help Bucky win by giving him the most recently passed proposal. At the end of the day, people will still need to add new entries to the mandate list

at worst, Bucky has a scam here we’re missing


23-08-2021 19:47:39 UTC

Im actually OK with rewinding the victory clock with plain stuff when we can.

I think this Proposal is largely inconsequential? Although I might be missing something.


23-08-2021 19:51:47 UTC

However if there is somehow no actual list in The Veto List, the next list is in… Statistics?


23-08-2021 22:42:56 UTC

The first paragraph creates a list, even if there wasn’t one, which might initially be empty.

Lulu: she/her

24-08-2021 18:29:06 UTC

against cov

Josh: he/they

25-08-2021 10:53:25 UTC

for Empathy