Tuesday, March 13, 2007

Proposal: Map (take 1)

Self-Killed. Clucky

Adminned at 14 Mar 2007 07:55:23 UTC

Proposal to add a new Dynastic rule, entitled “Map of Europe”, and take other actions, as follows:

Part 1:
The following image document, which is referred to as the “Map”, shall be a gamestate document and shall be appropriately linked from the main page and the wiki:
http://www.xcelco.on.ca/~ravgames/dipmaps/modern_ra.gif .

Part 2:
Add a new Dynastic rule, entitled “Map”, reading as follows:
The image document http://www.xcelco.on.ca/~ravgames/dipmaps/modern_ra.gif is referred to as the “Map” and is a gamestate document.  The term “Territory” refers to a named territory on the Map.  Named territories consist of territories with a three-letter abbreviated name (indicated on the map), or territories with a longer name in which three letters are underlined (such as Algeria or Mid-Atlantic Ocean).  Territories are either land territories or sea territories (with sea territories including North Atlantic Ocean and all other territories of that color, and land territories being all other territories).  Areas on the map that are not named territories (such as, for example, Sicily or Sudan) are disregarded and have no game effects.  Territories may be referred to by their full name or their unique three-letter abbreviated name (the name indicated on the map, or the underlined letters in the name indicated on the map).  Territories that are only labeled with a three letter name on the map (such as “Bor”, “Ska” or “Lat” may also be referred to by the full name for the territory as identified at http://variantbank.org/results/rules/m/modern2.htm .

A territory is considered adjacent, or bordering, another territory if the two territories border on the map.  For example, KRA (Krakow) borders SLO (Slovakia), and NTH (North Sea) borders YOR (Yorkshire).

An additional territory, called “OUTER SPACE”, is considered to be in existence.  “OUTER SPACE” borders KAZ (Kazakhstan),  SWI (Switzerland) and ICE (Iceland).

Each Agent has a Location.  Each Agent’s initial Location is a land territory on the Map that is assigned to that Agent via a confidential message from the Mastermind. 

Not more than once every three (3) days, a particular Agent may choose to move from the territory in which e is then located, as follows (but subject to the Movement Restrictions described below):

* The Agent may move to any territory adjacent to eir current Location; and
* The territories of LON (London), FRA (Frankfurt), MOS (Moscow) and CAI (Cairo) are considered “Airport Territories”.  An Agent who is located in an Airport Territory may move to any other Airport Territory, so long as the Agent posts a message to the main blog stating “X was spotted aboard a plane leaving Y” (with the Agent’s name being substituted for X, and the territory that the Agent left being substituted for Y).
* Particular Gadgets or other Rules or gamestate documents may permit other kinds of moves.

The GNDT will contain a statistic for each Agent, labeled “Last Known Location”.  Until an Agent moves, eir GNDT-reported “Last Known Location” will be “-”.  An Agent moves by changing eir GNDT “Last Known Location” to the name of the territory that e departed from (note emphasis).  For example, if Agent X’s initial location is PAR (Paris), eir initial “Last Known Location” is “-”.  If e moves from PAR (Paris) to LYO (Lyon), then the move will not be effective until e changes eir GNDT “Last Known Location” to PAR (Paris).  An Agent who moves must also, within 1 hour of changing eir GNDT “Last Known Location”, send a private message to the Mastermind identifying emself and stating that e is moving from Y to Z (substituting Y for the territory that e is leaving and Z for the territory that e is entering).  If the move is anything other than a move to an adjacent land territory, then e must also briefly identify the circumstances that permit em to make the move.

Movement restrictions:
Sea Restrictions: Notwithstanding the rules under “Movement” above, an Agent may not move into a sea territory unless: (i) the Agent has a Gadget that permits that Agent to move into a sea territory; or (ii) another Rule or other gamestate document permits the move.
Iron Curtain: The following territories are considered to be “Behind the Iron Curtain”: MUR (Murmansk), URA (Urals), SIB (Siberia), STP (St. Petersburg), GOR (Gorky), VOL (Volga), MOS (Moscow), CRP (Central Russian Plateau), ROS (Rostov), CAU (Caucasus), KAZ (Kazakhstan), AZE (Azerbaijan), ARM (Armenia), GEO (Georgia), DON, KHA (Kharkov), SEV (Sevastopol), ODE (Odessa), KIE (Kiev), POD (Podolia), RUM (Rumania), MOL (Moldova), BUL (Bulgaria), MAC (Macedonia), ALB (Albania), SER (Serbia), BOS (Bosnia), CRO (Croatia), HUN (Hungary), SLO (Slovakia), CZE (Czech), SAX (Saxony), BER (Berlin), PRU (Prussia), SIL (Silesia), GDA (Gdansk), WAR (Warsaw), KRA (Krakow), BIE (Bielorussia), LIT (Lithuania), LAT (Latvia), EST (Estonia).  All other provinces are considered to be “The Free World”.  An Agent may not move from a territory in The Free World to a territory Behind the Iron Curtain, or vice versa, unless (i) the Agent has a Gadget that permits that Agent to make such a move; or (ii) another Rule or other gamestate document permits the move.

Any number of agents may be located in a particular territory.



03-13-2007 04:09:21 UTC

I would really prefer a map of the whole world.


03-13-2007 04:42:21 UTC

I think a map of the world would be too big.  I like the idea of the map being europe.  Is it possible that we could have the line of the Iron Curtain drawn on a map that we keep?  It’d make things a bit easier.


03-13-2007 11:27:55 UTC

against Good Ide, but:

1. A map maintained in the blognomic domain would be better;
2. The Iron Curtain Line is a good Idea;
3. The “Last Known Position/inform the Mastermind about your moves” mechanics burdens the mastermind and give away too much information about an agent’s movements. I’d like better a mechanics involving an encrypted current location field in the GNDT and an encrypted itinerary in the wiki, with the encryption keys registered with the Mastermind.

I guess I’ll try to repropose it.


03-13-2007 11:34:45 UTC

Like CP said, the map should be hosted on blognomic. Also, this seems needlessly complex. I would much rather simply worry about changing longitude and latitude. Also also, why must an Agent declare eir last known location each time e moves? That doesn’t seem productive.


03-13-2007 11:49:49 UTC

I’ve made a “red-lined” version of the map, but I cant FTP it to blognomic here from my job.

I’ll email it to Clucky.


03-13-2007 13:40:34 UTC

against Didn’t we just go through the outside pointer thing?


03-13-2007 13:46:35 UTC

- I don’t want to burden the Mastermind either (unless he’s up for it).  If there’s a better (and technically feasible) way of handling movements without having them publicly visible, that would be nice.  The point of the “Last Known Location” statistic is that we shouldn’t know _exactly_ where a particular Agent is, but we should be able to come up with some educated guesses.  I foresee that hunting down an Agent could become an interesting part of the game.

- I don’t care where the map is hosted.  If people find the map that I posted too hard to read, this: is a simplified but topologically identical one.

- I suggest a map with territories, rather than longitude and latitude, so that there is a finite number of provinces, and to make it more like that two or more Agents (or Gadgets, or other objects or entities) can come to be located in the same place.

- The Iron Curtain is supposed to be pretty intuitive: it’s the provinces in the ex-Soviet Union, Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia, Romania, Bulgaria, Yugoslavia and Albania, plus the German provinces of Berlin and Saxony (representing East Germany).

- I considered a world map rather than a Europe map (check my talk page on the Wiki for a couple of candidates).  But the world maps either had way too many provinces (making it unlikely that two Agents would be in the same province), or too few provinces (having all of Europe divided into two or three provinces kind of robs the game of some of its flavor).  I figured that this Europe map was a happy medium.

- This proposal is not necessarily incompatible with the maps proposal that I understand Hix to be thinking about.  This is, however, incompatible with Tiberias’s locations idea.


03-13-2007 14:19:26 UTC

The word “provinces” in the Iron Curtain clause is a typo—I meant “territories”.


03-13-2007 15:55:10 UTC

for (despite naming clash concerning “location” with tiberias’s proposal).  I think the “last known location” is good.  We may be sneaky, but you’ve also got to figure that all the other Agents do have access to some major intelligence through their respective organizations.  If you want to be extra-sneaky, make use of a gadget.

Kevan: HE/HIM

03-13-2007 16:08:36 UTC

Just passing through, but it’d be useful to have the “upload images” feature enabled on the wiki, for this sort of thing - is there any reason why it isn’t?


03-13-2007 16:42:03 UTC

Now that it’s not late, here’s some ideas that might make a bit more sense.

-Rather than last known location being a territory which the Agent just left, make it the country they are currently in, and define the countries (or the name of the country they left and their mode of transportation (left England by plane, or left France by Submarine)
-I don’t mind tracking alot of events, though if that’s going to be the case I’m gonna set up a gmail account specifically for that, and request that everything go through that, as the Private message folder here probably isn’t big enough for the amount of messages i’d be receiving and records or past moves if i’d want to keep them.
-A contingency that allows the Mastermind to move around differently, mostly so his movements can be more secretive (though just listing the country he is currently in should be enough.

Thta’s all I got right now


03-13-2007 17:21:56 UTC

I still think its too complex ^_^


03-13-2007 17:58:31 UTC



03-13-2007 18:03:42 UTC

for because it fits the theme.  I expect there to be a proposal changing the map to be the one using the Iron Curtain line and it being hosted on the wiki rather than an exterior site.


03-13-2007 19:50:30 UTC

But the map is so needlessly complex <_<


03-13-2007 22:42:24 UTC

I’m torn here, since I really like this proposal but I also agree with almost all of what Chronos said earlier… I guess I’m going to vote against and hope Chronos proposes his soon. (Gogogog Chronos map proposal! :P)


03-13-2007 23:15:41 UTC



03-14-2007 01:14:19 UTC

I’ve posted my version of it.


03-14-2007 01:23:48 UTC

CoV against .  I know the new version makes provisions should this one pass, but I think it’s cleaner if this fails.


03-14-2007 01:45:33 UTC

against per hix


03-14-2007 13:20:24 UTC

against SELF-KILL, so we can focus on Map 2 and Movement.