Saturday, May 17, 2025

Moving forwards

I’m not sure if I’ll be able to dedicate enough time to BlogNomic in the near future to properly run a dynasty (especially as the main theme I have in mind requires a Casual level of Imperial tracking, which I can’t guarantee that I’ll be able to provide).

Normally in this situation I’d pass the mantle (it was the original purpose of the mantle-pass rule), but due to anti-pooling measures, mantle-passing isn’t available at the moment. Additionally, some people have (weirdly) started valuing player success via dynasty-as-Emperor count rather than win count (e.g. all the various “mantle roll” agreements we’ve historically seen don’t make sense unless you do that), which gives a perverse incentive to start a dynasty and immediately abandon it, rather than letting someone else start a presumably better dynasty. Finally, as far as I can tell, the core rules actually mandate that I must post an Ascension Address and don’t give any option not to (the rule says “If the game is in an Interregnum then the new Concierge must make an Ascension Address” which, according to our usual precedents, allows players to treat the Ascension Address as having been posted even if I don’t actually make one).

As such, I can see four main lines forwards:
1. a proposal for a core rules change, or a dynastic rule to override the core rules, to allow for a mantle pass and let someone else run a dynasty (but, it might be hard to decide who to pass to, given that this was a purely solo win with no agreements other than temporary single-Break-In agreements with my randomly selected team);
2. I start a dynasty and try to muddle through it as best I can, but it’s at risk of collapsing due to a disengaged Emperor possibly failing to do tracking properly or to guide enough of the gameplay for the other players to build a ruleset (but this is not hopeless – I may be able to devote enough time to at least keep the dynasty going, although it’s unlikely that anything spectacular would happen);
3. I start a dynasty but, early in the dynasty, let someone else take over as Emperor via dynastic rule (I think I can create gameplay compatible with doing that);
4. “BlogNomic has a perfectly good way to determine who should run a dynasty – it’s called a dynasty” – start a new short dynasty whose purpose is to decide how to continue, in the style of ais523 III

I am also not convinced by my theme idea; it falls into the area of “I’m envisioning a particular sort of gameplay but we might not be able to implement it correctly” that has plagued most of the dynasties recently (since I unidled, there have been many dynasties where I clearly understood the Imperial vision, but actually translating it into rules was much harder and the ruleset ended up not matching the vision at all).

Do people have suggestions on what the best option to move forwards might be (any of the above, or perhaps an option I’m missing?).

Comments

JonathanDark: he/him

17-05-2025 03:59:30 UTC

I’d go for option #4. You state a very simple theme in your AA with Imperial styles of “Onlooker, Libertarian, Hands Off, Scam Neutral, Oblivious” and maybe a single Proposal to start things off in your given theme. Then, stay out of it unless you want to occasionally dip in, and let the players determine where the dynasty ends up. It’s the most fair thing that makes sense to me.

We could even consider a dynasty-long “Emperor always votes DEF” proposal if vote totals are a concern when the Emperor plans to be absent most of the time.

JonathanDark: he/him

17-05-2025 04:16:58 UTC

Also, if you’re worried that players might propose something that requires more of your involvement, you could try a proposal for a dynastic rule that the Emperor cannot privately track gamestate or perform any dynastic actions, public or private. Sure, it could be repealed, but it’s a line in the sand that would clearly let players know that if they remove it, they’ll wind up stalling the dynasty waiting for you to do actions that you don’t intend on doing.

Kevan: he/him

17-05-2025 07:48:26 UTC

2 sounds okay if your position is made clear up front. Dynasties only really get into trouble when an Emperor spends a week taking on heavy tracking/action duties and then loses interest or becomes unavailable.

3 could be good, with no reason to be too literal about it. A dynasty could have a fairly passive Emperor, with their useful duties (DEF resolution, emergency vetoes, private tracking, making boring fix proposals, spinning a narrative, keeping people engaged) divided up among other named player roles.

4 also seems fine, although I think the minimum-24-hour proposal speed might make short dynasties less viable, or at least less Nomic. (The Equity Dynasty ran for a week at a good clip, and I enjoyed it doing so, but it pre-dates that timing change.)

JonathanDark: he/him

17-05-2025 15:33:53 UTC

I forgot that option 4 was a short dynasty. I don’t think it has to be. I guess my thinking it’s similar to a meta dynasty in that the theme is very light to start with and is almost entirely player driven, and the difference is that ais would get to set the theme to start with, just wouldn’t have a heavy hand in its continuation.

ais523: Supervisor

17-05-2025 16:24:52 UTC

My view of option 4 was a bit different from how JonathanDark is interpreting it – as an “I set up a bunch of rules that are intended to produce a winner quickly, based broadly on player voting as to who they think would make the best Emperor, and don’t expect the proposal system to have much if any impact”, not as an (effective) metadynasty.

In ais523 III, one of the reasons I did that is that I literally couldn’t act as Emperor due to being in Canada for a week with no computer (and thus no Internet access). I’m expecting to be able to be online more than that this time.

I agree that that sort of dynasty isn’t really Nomic from the point of view of the proposal system impacting the game. It is, however, Nomic indirectly in that the gameplay is still about choosing what you want the ruleset to look like – you’re just doing it via dynastic mechanics rather than via the proposal system.

JonathanDark: he/him

17-05-2025 16:49:43 UTC

Ok, well in that case I’d prefer option 3: you start the dynasty but then arrange dynastic rules that would allow someone else to take over, either literally or effectively.

Thinking about it, the pattern for my preference is a regular-sized dynasty over a short one.

JonathanDark: he/him

17-05-2025 16:51:00 UTC

I am slightly concerned that no one else is weighing in so far. Maybe it’s just early or the weekend, but if there’s a lack of enthusiasm because the dynasty isn’t getting started in the usual manner, that might point to a solution that has the right “hook” to get people interested.

ais523: Supervisor

17-05-2025 16:57:34 UTC

For what it’s worth, after reading this conversation, I’m currently leaning towards a mix of 2 and 3: “try to produce a theme that is able to function without an Emperor, then try to do the Emperor duties myself, in the knowledge that if I can’t the dynasty will still be OK”.

I will need to think a bit more about the theming, though.

DoomedIdeas: he/him

17-05-2025 16:58:59 UTC

I’m not weighing in because I don’t think I know enough about running Dynasties to have anything helpful to say, but I like ais523’s idea of a mix of 2 and 3.

Josh: he/they

17-05-2025 17:01:06 UTC

I’ll probably unidle tomorrow or the day after but just to throw in my 2¢: I enjoy the short dynasty idea. Meta 10 was a good one and I think we can probably make some dynastic adaptations that would help the timing, and the short form is a fun creative space to explore.

Raven1207: he/they

17-05-2025 17:06:00 UTC

Maybe Fast Nomic dynasty?

Darknight: he/him

17-05-2025 17:31:07 UTC

I’m up for the short dynasty idea. Trying to make a way to mantle pass right now sounds more of a hassle then it’d be worth. And that’s coming from someone who took over a dynasty for someone mid way

qenya: she/they

17-05-2025 22:24:35 UTC

Weighing in since I was asked to: I think I would broadly be equally happy with any of the options. (I am considering idling anyway because my own time is a bit restricted this month too; that won’t be affected by whatever you decide here.)

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