Because while the GNDT has zero as the default for fields that have yet to be touched, the ruleset doesn’t support that. Unusued fields should really default to blank and blank*blank (or indeed anything*blank) doesn’t equal any usable result.

I can’t see any evidence that moonroof had previously established a zero in columns one or three, and thus PP*relationship should have been blank, not zero.

“If a Time Monk has a value which is nonsensical for their Dynasty (for instance, they have “Robot” as a numeric value), then it is considered to be the default value for the purposes of their Dynasty’s rules, and if that value would be modified by the original, it is set to the default (so that if you had “Robot” in a numeric field with default 100 and added 3, the result would be 103). “

the default value of both PP and Relationships was zero. Blank is a nonsensical value for PP and Relationships because they are both integers, as such it is set to default (which is zero)

By your own admission, “because dynasty 1 has no Core Rules, it also has no GNDT stats associated with it.” Therefore Dynasty 1’s nonsensical values and defaults are irrelevant.

Dynasty 1’s nonsense values are irrelevent, Ruleset 60s aren’t.

I may be missing something here, but why would dynasty 60’s rules affect Moonroof? He wasn’t ever in Dynasty 60. I’ve tried to work through this but can’t make much sense of it; I’m assuming that it works because other people who I trust have accepted it, but I can’t seem to work it out. I looks to me like moonroof was in dynasty 1 until you reset all the stats after the scam was complete.

Moonroof was in dynasty one. The only reason dynasty one and moon roof mattered was that his first and third columns were both non-zero integers.

Darknight, as time buddah, can perform any time buddah action in any dysnasty. Including “Any time after 23:59:00 on 18/12/08 has passed, the Narrator shall multiply the Relationship of each Active Character by their PP and add the results. If this sum is less than or equal to 0, the Protagonist dies and a new metadynasty begins.”

So every Time Monk’s first and third column had to be an integer. This caused all the blanks or strings to be reset to the default values for dynasty 60, i.e. zero, and wound up killing the protagonist.

Okay, I’m sticking with against, because the passage you quoted specifies that the values for each player’s GNDT are nonsensical if they have a “value which is nonsensical for their Dynasty”. So as argued above, moonroof’s first and third columns were not “both non-zero integers” - they were blank. Darknight’s actions in dynasty 60, although certainly legal, confer no effect on moonroof’s statistics - or anybody else’s, for that matter.

In short, GNDT figures have to be nonsensical for each Time Monk’s dynasty, not anybody else’s. Unless I’m still missing something?

(A more fertile line of argument, I think, would be that ‘their dynasty’ in “A Time Monk may at any time change a nonsensical GNDT value to the default for their Dynasty” is poorly defined - but you’re not making that argument so I’m not really going to consider it for this CfJ.)

So the other part of the rule says “Whenever the ruleset of the Dynasty that a Time Monk is occupying permits them to change the value of another Time Monk’s GNDT field then they may do so using the same mapping, provided that the change makes sense (for example, if Time Monk A is permitted to change Time Monk B’s “Credits” [mapped to GNDT Field 1] by 5, then they may do so provided that Time Monk B’s GNDT Field 1 is numeric.)”

However, the rule *required* Darknight to do the multiplication. So I would argue that because we have “Darknight must do this” and “In order to do this the values must make sense” then the values must be set to something that makes sense, i.e. their default values.

What are you saying the sum of the PP * relationship was? a nonsense value? Is a nonsense value less than or equal to zero?

Personally I would think that in “they may do so using the same mapping, provided that the change makes sense”, the use of the word “provided” sits somewhere between implying and actively stating that this action can’t be performed at all if the change doesn’t make sense.

The other part doesn’t apply because the values were read, not changed.  A nonsense value has no relationship to zero; the entire clause doesn’t make sense so nothing happens.

(Also relevant to the discussion: “In the event of a conflict or paradox in the ruleset, the Hard Rules always take precedence.”)

Also, even if a new metadynasty started, you had no way to block me from performing my scam if it worked / will work, and starting a new dynasty - I’m not saying it necessarily worked, but you shouldn’t rob me of a potential win by CfJ.

because it does not account for the previous CfJ failing. I won’t CoV if it passes on principle.

This is assuming your move was illegal because there were no dynastic rules OMD.

What is your point scshunt? This CfJ is saying “Kevan is right on this issue, but wrong on this one”. If you feel Kevan is wrong on the original issue, then obviously you’d be against this too. But I’m still not sure where “principle” comes in.

There is no conflict or paradox in the rules. Just something saying “This must happen” and it either producing a undefined or zero value.

*why do I get the feeling Josh is just trying to stall the game a few more days so he can try his victory scam and win that way?*

I wouldn’t need to wait, Clucky. My DoV failed with a number of votes that equalled quorum, not exceeded it.

well thats a bug…

Not because I’m convinced that this is setting things to the actual gamestate, but because I think an unambiguous reset is a good thing right now.

Hard rules can’t be modified except by proposal. I think this makes the situation worse.

“The following are the Hard Rules for the Sixth Dynasty of Josh (or “Dynasty 100”). They may not be amended by any means other than a Proposal, a Call for Judgement or an Ascension Address and may not be superseded by any other rule. In the event of a conflict or paradox in the ruleset, the Hard Rules always take precedence.”

Where di you see that hard rules can’t be modified except by proposal?