I am against this, as CfJs should remain a firebreak mechanism for when the game truly breaks. I’d be more up for allowing the Emperor to veto CfJs under defined circumstances, or just enforcing the social expectation that they get voted down when clearly being used to sidestep proposal limits.

Yeah, we’re usually pretty strong on voting down CfJs that could and should have been proposals, I think, and I’d certainly lead the charge on it.

We shouldn’t risk a genuinely urgent fix being delayed because someone happened to have made a contentious, unrelated CfJ a few hours earlier.

What’s a genuinely urgent fix, in this context?

I’m ever so slightly hesitant that something could come up that would render a CfJ unpassable and lock the gamestate for 7 days.

There is a somewhat strong chance we back ourselves into a corner with what proposals can and cannot do this dynasty. CfJs will be an important tool to get is out. But I think the player base can be smart enough to not abuse CfJs and only use them for their real intended purposes not as a way to bypass proposal restrictions.

Huh, I didn’t realise that the definition of popular could be overwritten by dynastic rules. So dynastic rules could easily (and accidentally) change the procedures for modifying the core rules. That seems…broken.

[Brendan] Everyone being locked out of proposing and game actions for some reason. I guess it would sharpen up voting on whatever the contentious queue-blocker was, though.

Would also flag that we have “If a Proposal somehow ends up being pending for more than 7 days, it is ignored for the purpose of calculating the oldest pending Proposal, and can be failed by any Admin.” to cover our backs if someone messed up a proposal enactment in 2007, but there’s no equivalent here. An ancient CfJ may still be pending somewhere to this day.

We’ve had a couple of such breakages recently, including a spectacular car crash when a dynasty overwrote Victories and Ascension.

Fair point, Kevan, I’ve addressed that.

7 days is still a long time. while sure its nice that this doesn’t cause us to accidentally perma lock the gamestate, I still feel like this adds a bunch of constraints to fix a problem that shouldn’t even exist because people shouldn’t be using CfJs as “a mechanism for skirting the “proposals are the primary mechanic” theme of the dynasty,” in the first place.

if that does happen, i’d rather take other steps to prevent it rather than wholesale changing how CfJs work.

per Clucky, Kevan and myself

there’s a few things that should be absolute, CfJs as a method to pick us out of any corners is one.

Will never support anything that limits a CfJ.

As per previous responses, I think leaving CfJs open for whatever we need is a much better option, I doubt they will pass if they’re trying to bypass the restrictions anyway

I definitely think this would cause more problems than it solves