Tuesday, December 03, 2019

Call for Judgment: Nothing is hidden that will not be made manifest

Reached quorum 3 votes to 0. Enacted by Kevan.

Adminned at 04 Dec 2019 16:42:19 UTC

Replace “In order to use Hidden Monstrosities, the Monster must claim them by privately informing the Priest what Hidden Monstrosities they have chosen; such notification should be by Private Message. If the Priest has received no such notification by the time the Monster has performed its first Battle Action following its Transformation, the Monster shall be considered never to have had any Hidden Monstrosities.” with:

In order to confirm possession of the Hidden Monstrosities they have, if any, the Monster must privately inform the Priest what these Hidden Monstrosities are; such notification should be by Private Message. If the Priest has received no such notification by the time the Monster has performed its first Battle Action following its Transformation, or the notification lists more Hidden Monstrosities than the number of Monstrosities the Monster is entitled to have (according to the previous paragraph) minus the number of Visible Monstrosities listed in the blog post by which they Finished Transforming, the Monster shall be considered never to have had any Hidden Monstrosities.

Undo the last Battle Action of the Adventurer named TyGuy6 (completed at 20:25:21 UTC on 3 December 2019).

I’m clarifying the text and making the rule’s intention more explicit, including any conflicts between Visible and Hidden Monstrosities (where it would ordinarily be up to the Priest to reject a notification claiming more Monstrosities than the Monster would be allowed to have). Also for clarity’s sake, I’m stipulating the reversion of the last Battle Action, even though the rest of the CfJ can be read as confirming that this ought to happen anyway.

Comments

The Duke of Waltham: he/him

03-12-2019 23:16:30 UTC

TyGuy claims that the clause “In order to use Hidden Monstrosities, the Monster must claim them by privately informing the Priest what Hidden Monstrosities they have chosen” allows him to use such Monstrosities even though he has filled his quota of Monstrosities with Visible ones when Finishing Transforming.

I reject such claims. One clause of the same rule states that “A Monster should not comment that they use a certain Hidden Monstrosities’ Battle Action (when they actually don’t have it) on a Battle post as to mislead.” Another states that “Any Battle Actions which the Monster has performed and which they couldn’t have performed without Hidden Monstrosities shall be as if they had never happened”. Both these clauses say that it’s not sufficient to use a Hidden Monstrosity: one must have it first.

And to have a Hidden Monstrosity, one must have gained it, according to the second paragraph of the rule: “A Transforming Monster can Finish Transforming to [...] gain up to X Monstrosities of their choice (where X is the amount of Adventurers in the dynasty when Transformation began)”. This naturally includes Hidden Monstrosities, per the clause “A Monstrosity that is not Visible is Hidden, and Monstrosities are by default Hidden”.

TyGuy6:

03-12-2019 23:48:43 UTC

This reading (and rewriting) of the ruleset is based mainly on the assumption that you must have a Monstrosity in order to use it. Which begs the question. The ruleset’s authors may have held that assumption, yet it was never provably so. Nor was there ever before a limit to the number of Monstrosities to which a Monster was “entitled”.

If this were to pass, it would be more as a majority-wins gamestate change than as a judgement on the current situation.

The Duke of Waltham: he/him

03-12-2019 23:52:06 UTC

You assert these things but do not address my specific arguments above, which directly refute them; “gain up to X Monstrosities of their choice” is a clear limit, even if it wasn’t phrased as “this is a limit”.

Madrid:

04-12-2019 08:03:55 UTC

Its the limit for that specific mechanism, which is separate from the Hidden Monstrosities claiming mechanism.

They’re not connected, because it has nothing written that one somehow limits the other.

Kevan: he/him

04-12-2019 15:34:29 UTC

for

card:

04-12-2019 16:02:17 UTC

for