they were clearly achieved so not sure why you’d remove them from people on a technicality when every other point through this dynasty we’ve let the intended spirit of stuff play on

also if you want to actually get technical, the “The criteria for an Achievement must be met between the moment just before the first Spell is cast during a Duel and the moment just after the last Spell’s Effects are applied during that same Duel.” statement is meaningless when it comes to applying achievements. The criteria for applying achievements is merely

“For each Achievement listed on the spell list page for the duel, add it to the list of Achievements for each Wizard who met the criteria for that Achievement (according to the spell list for the current duel)”

The spell list for the current duel does not contain the phrase “The criteria for an Achievement must be met between the moment just before the first Spell is cast during a Duel and the moment just after the last Spell’s Effects are applied during that same Duel.” and thus, according to the spell list for the duel, the achievements were properly obtained

(also in case anyone is worried, if this passes in its current form I will wait until every wizard has confirmed they want to keep casting their existing spell or cast a new spell so that people have time to respond accordingly)

“For each Achievement listed on the spell list page for the duel, add it to the list of Achievements for each Wizard who met the criteria for that Achievement (according to the spell list for the current duel)” in the middle of a duel also doesn’t work with criteria that take effect at the end of the duel.

It’s one thing to argue that the rules weren’t written correctly and people took liberties with them. Fix the wording if necessary and uphold past actions - that’s the fair thing to do.

It’s another thing to take away gains from the efforts of other players. That’s bordering on poor sportsmanship or whatever other term you’d like to call it.

p.s. you’ve also spent a fair amount of time with these proposals, but you haven’t submitted for this upcoming Duel. Is there something fundamentally wrong that requires holding things up?

You mean, aside from the achievements not working?

I would not be opposed to buttoning up the wording to be clearer, but I’ll definitely be voting against any efforts that remove lendun and vovix’s achievements

Would agree with Bucky’s interpretation that these achievements could not have been legally assigned under the current ruleset, and that this is what the current state of play is right now. No strong objections to a follow-up proposal that assigns them legally.

for obvious reasons

would support a follow-up CfJ that doesn’t force me to get all my personality traits up again

It seems to me that we could do both within the same CfJ.

what JD said

I can see an alternate world where Clucky didn’t give out the achievements for this reason, and we post a CfJ to give them out anyways, because it’s just a slight flaw in the wording that went unnoticed until now. 

It wasn’t unnoticed until now, I tried to fix it as part of Criteria are not Effects. It got voted down for including other changes.

And this got voted down for not including other changes, I guess for asking in its first sentence if we should “remove” achievements, rather than whether the group agrees (as I think it does?) that the achievements don’t currently exist.