Thursday, July 29, 2021

Proposal: One Last Ride

Quorum against, 2 votes to 5. Josh

Adminned at 31 Jul 2021 08:45:05 UTC

Add the following to Richardo’s Journey, after the “For each Vampire Lord without a Sepulchre, and with an Influence above zero, set their Influence to zero.” step

* Bring about the Arrival of Penolpa by performing the following steps
** Sanctify any rooms which have the effect “Cursed”
** For any Vampire Lord who has influence which is at least 3 plus the number of Blood Mana Crystals they have and whose Puissance is at least 2, perform the distilling action on that Vampire Lord’s behalf. Repeat until no such Vampire Lord’s remain
** Square the number of Blood Mana Crystals each Vampire Lord has
** Select a random Blood Mana Crystal from among those held by all Vampire Lords. The Vampire Lord who holds that crystal achieves victory and must be named in the post to the blog summarising this Enter the Crypt action
** Set the Crypt to be Cleansed

Add a rule called “Sunrise”

If the Crypt is Cleansed (by default it isn’t), no Dynastic actions may be taken by Vampire Lords or Richardo von Nestor (other completing an Enter the Crypt action which began while the Crypt was not Cleansed)

 

Comments

ais523:

29-07-2021 15:27:34 UTC

Can you take actions on someone else’s behalf while you’re in the middle of resolving an atomic action yourself?

Chiiika: she/her

29-07-2021 17:05:07 UTC

“If the Crypt is in Cleansed” should be “If the Crypt is Cleansed” or “If the Crypt is in a Cleansed state”.

lemon: she/her

29-07-2021 23:30:02 UTC

for

Brendan: he/him

30-07-2021 15:36:04 UTC

imperial

Josh: he/they

30-07-2021 16:02:32 UTC

for I like this one because I get to do one more run, and for some reason that’s fun for me

ais523:

30-07-2021 16:47:43 UTC

Right now, there are no Bloodthirsty Vampire Lords.

After one more run, though, there quite possibly would be, in which case the Atomic Action gets stuck; the distilling step can’t be completed because the Bloodthirsty Vampire Lords can’t distil. That would cause the entire step to be skipped, including for the Vampire Lords who weren’t Bloodthirsty, which seems like a pretty major bug.

ais523:

30-07-2021 16:49:19 UTC

I also think it’s a big problem to have the victory roll be part of the same atomic action as everything else: if Josh makes a mistake earlier in the action (which is quite plausible), then the final victory roll won’t count unless the BMC levels end up exactly the same, so we’re likely to have fake-out victory announcements. Worse, if the DoV gets posted immediately, the Hiatus may make the last run impossible to fix, most likely leading to yet another mess of CFJs.

Clucky: he/him

30-07-2021 17:54:49 UTC

nope. wrong again. If the rules say to perform the distilling action, the distilling action is performed even if it can’t be performed normally.

Kevan: City he/him

30-07-2021 17:58:41 UTC

against Preferring my proposal to end it after the one run (which we’ve now had) rather than two runs, and Clucky’s team also having the advantage of squaring their scores.

Raven1207: he/they

30-07-2021 18:14:22 UTC

against

ais523:

30-07-2021 19:57:26 UTC

@Clucky: “can’t” beats “can” when there’s a contradiction between rules, like there would be here. Your proposal doesn’t say “even if it couldn’t be performed normally”.

ais523:

30-07-2021 20:14:01 UTC

…actually, because this is a sublist of steps (and thus a single step in its own right), it isn’t just the distilling action that’s skipped; the entire Arrival will be skipped (because there’s the ability to skip failing steps in Enter the Crypt but not in Arrival). So this effectively becomes “the dynasty ends next time there’s an Expedition and nobody with Influence is Bloodthirsty”, which is a really random condition to end a dynasty on.

Clucky: he/him

30-07-2021 20:34:12 UTC

wrong again (remember, its saying go perform this action on this other persons behalf. so at that point it doesn’t matter if they can’t perform it themselves) but its clear you don’t care so I’m just going to ignore you.

ais523:

30-07-2021 20:48:48 UTC

Simply asserting “wrong” doesn’t a) make you right, or b) guarantee you’ll win a CFJ on the matter, and this seems very likely to end the dynasty in a mess of CFJs in which we argue about whether the selection of the winner was legal.

“Go perform this action on that player’s behalf” doesn’t, to me, imply that you can do it even if they can’t do it (in fact, it implies the opposite).

ais523:

30-07-2021 21:06:04 UTC

There’s another use of “on behalf” in the ruleset. From “Representations of the Gamestate”, you get to do this: “Alter the representation to match what they believe to be the correct application of an incorrectly-applied alteration. This may include completing incomplete actions on behalf of the original Vampire Lord, if doing so would not require the correcting Vampire Lord to make any decisions on behalf of the original Vampire Lord.”.

If your reasoning were correct, it would mean that by incorrectly applying an alteration, another player would get to complete that alteration, even if it were illegal – you could use this as a loophole to successfully perform illegal actions.

ais523:

30-07-2021 21:44:03 UTC

against Excessively skewed in favour of Clucky’s alliance (the squaring doesn’t matter much in the current gamestate, but is likely to favour lemonfanta after the next run takes place), and broken.

Josh: he/they

31-07-2021 08:03:00 UTC

Cov against Now that Crystal Dome had enacted, this does nothing

Clucky: he/him

31-07-2021 08:24:30 UTC

But we could have two sunshine rules! That’s twice as much sunshine!