Monday, June 28, 2010

Proposal: Piece of Junk

s/k’d - lilomar

Adminned at 29 Jun 2010 15:58:55 UTC

Change rule 2.13 to read:

There is an item called the Amulet of Yendor. There is an item called the Cheap Plastic Imitation of the Amulet of Yendor. There is an item called the REAL Amulet of Yendor.

Amulet of Yendors each have a Dungeon Level. If an Amulet of Yendor is in the inventory of an @, then the Dungeon Level of that Amulet of Yendor is the same as the Dungeon Level of that @. If an Amulet of Yendor exists, but is not in the inventory of an @, then the Dungeon Level of that Amulet of Yendor is tracked in the RNG Row in the GNDT (Multiple Amulets tracked in such a way should have their Dungeon Levels separated by slashes.)

While an Amulet of Yendor is in an @‘s Inventory, if that @ Dies as a result of Fighting another @ or another @ Fighting them, that other @ has the Amulet of Yendor added to their Inventory.

If no @ has the same Dungeon Level as an Amulet of Yendor, and that Amulet of Yendor’s Dungeon Level is greater than 1, and that Amulet of Yendor has had the same Dungeon Level for the previous 48 hours and since the start of the week, any @ may decrease that Amulet of Yendor’s Dungeon Level by 1.

If there is exactly one Amulet of Yendor, and if an @ has that Amulet of Yendor in their inventory, and there are no Cheap Plastic Imitation of the Amulet of Yendors in existence, then a second Amulet of Yendor is created on the Dungeon Level the first is currently on. If there are ever more than two Amulet of Yendors in existence, the most recently created Amulet immediately ceases to exist. If there is ever less than one Amulet of Yendor in existence, and there are no REAL Amulet of Yendors in existence, then an Amulet of Yendor is created on Dungeon Level 10.

If there is ever a REAL Amulet of Yendor in existence, all Amulet of Yendors are changed to Cheap Plastic Imitation of the Amulet of Yendors. If there is ever more than one REAL Amulet of Yendor in existence, all REAL Amulet of Yendors, the most recently created REAL Amulet of Yendor becomes a Cheap Plastic Imitation of the Amulet of Yendor.

An @ or RNG may Recognize an Amulet of Yendor when this rule explicitly permits it. To do so, they roll DICE2. If the result is 1, then that Amulet of Yendor becomes a REAL Amulet of Yendor.

If an @‘s Dungeon Level is 0, and they have an Amulet of Yendor in their Inventory, then they may Recognize that Amulet of Yendor.

If an @‘s Dungeon Level is 0, and they have a REAL Amulet of Yendor in their Inventory, they achieve victory.

Change rule 2.6 to read:

Each @ has a number called Dungeon Level (tracked in the GNDT), defaulting to 1. As a XYZ action, an @ may attempt to Find the Stairs; to do this, they roll DICE6 in the GNDT. The attempt is successful if that @‘s Kills is equal or higher than the result of that die roll. If the attempt is successful, and their Dungeon Level is not equal to an Amulet of Yendors, they increase or decrease their Dungeon Level by 1. If the attempt is successful and their Dungeon Level is equal to that of an Amulet of Yendor which is not in an @‘s Inventory, they either increase their Dungeon Level by 1, decrease their Dungeon Level by 1, or add that Amulet of Yendor to their Inventory.

On any successful attempt to find the Stairs, an @ decreases their Kills to 0.

If the proposal entitled “Turbo Grinding (take 2)” passed, replace XYZ in rule 2.6 with “daily”, otherwise, replace XYZ in rule 2.6 with “weekly”.

 

If at least a simple majority of EVCs to this proposal contain the phrase “make tourists useful”, then add the following sentence to the penultimate paragraph of rule 2.13:

If an @ has an expensive camera in their inventory, and they have an Amulet of Yendor in their Inventory, then they may Recognize that Amulet of Yendor.

 

I think this takes care of all the problems in the “Plastic” proposal, while still having the same intended effects. I don’t know what the expensive camera is used for in nethack, but it makes sense in my head for it to be able to identify a real amulet. Maybe the tourist takes a picture and emails it to a lab for id? The camera could have internet capabilities, it is expensive, after all.

Comments

lilomar:

28-06-2010 01:24:45 UTC

eav
for make tourists useful

h2g2guy:

28-06-2010 01:39:31 UTC

I really like this, and this is exactly what I intended with my Plastic proposal…except for one thing.  I think there’s a serious grammatical mistake in paragraph 6:

If there is ever more than one REAL Amulet of Yendor in existence, all REAL Amulet of Yendors, the most recently created REAL Amulet of Yendor becomes a Cheap Plastic Imitation of the Amulet of Yendor.

The second clause there doesn’t seem to make sense. 

I’m not sure if you can change the proposal at this point, but I’m not going to vote just in case you still can.  (Or if I’m just misreading it, do let me know.)

lilomar:

28-06-2010 01:42:35 UTC

well, it has just been pointed out on irc that this proposal has several fatal flaws, mostly miss-typings.

1)“If there is ever more than one REAL Amulet of Yendor in existence, all REAL Amulet of Yendors, the most recently created REAL Amulet of Yendor becomes a Cheap Plastic Imitation of the Amulet of Yendor.”
should be
“If there is ever more than one REAL Amulet of Yendor in existence, the most recently created REAL Amulet of Yendor becomes a Cheap Plastic Imitation of the Amulet of Yendor.”

2)“If the attempt is successful, and their Dungeon Level is not equal to an Amulet of Yendors, they increase or decrease their Dungeon Level by 1.”
should be
“If the attempt is successful, and their Dungeon Level is not equal to that of an Amulet of Yendor which is in the inventory of an @, they must either increase or decrease their Dungeon Level by 1.”

3)“they either increase their Dungeon Level by 1, decrease their Dungeon Level by 1, or add that Amulet of Yendor to their Inventory.”
should be
“they must either increase their Dungeon Level by 1, decrease their Dungeon Level by 1, or add that Amulet of Yendor to their Inventory.”

Anything else? will s/k and re-propose once I am sure the flaws are worked out.

lilomar:

28-06-2010 01:45:06 UTC

@h2g2guy: you ninja’d me. yes, that is a mistake, and I could not change it due to having already commented on it myself. That’ll teach me to check for feedback in irc before making an EAV.

For future reference: Commenting on a proposal is what prevents it from being changed, not voting.

h2g2guy:

28-06-2010 01:51:36 UTC

I have a few issues with the fixes.  Firstly, I don’t think the changes to ‘must’ are necessary, because I don’t think we should make someone climb the stairs if they’ve found them.  Secondly, I don’t get change 2.  With that modification, if we have an amulet that is not in someone’s inventory but on the same dungeon level as the @ in question, we must either increase or decrease our dungeon level.  Did you forget a ‘not’, or am I again mis-reading this?

lilomar:

28-06-2010 01:58:36 UTC

I put the changes to must specifically because an at should have to change levels (or pick up the amulet) if they Find the Stairs. Otherwise, they can stay on level 1 and just keep getting easy kills and getting treasure from finding the stairs.

As to change 2… Ok, now it’s confusing me. Try this:
Change rule 2.6 to read:

Each @ has a number called Dungeon Level (tracked in the GNDT), defaulting to 1. As a XYZ action, an @ may attempt to Find the Stairs; to do this, they roll DICE6 in the GNDT. The attempt is successful if that @‘s Kills is equal or higher than the result of that die roll. If the attempt is successful they must either increase or decrease their Dungeon Level by 1. If their Dungeon Level is equal to that of an Amulet of Yendor which is not in an @‘s Inventory, they may, instead of changing their Dungeon Level, add that Amulet of Yendor to their Inventory.

On any successful attempt to find the Stairs, an @ decreases their Kills to 0.

Darknight: he/him

28-06-2010 04:26:47 UTC

imperial

lilomar:

28-06-2010 15:28:54 UTC

against s/k
new prop is up.