Friday, June 09, 2023

Proposal: Reinforcing The Wall

Timed out and enacted, 5-0. Josh

Adminned at 11 Jun 2023 20:04:54 UTC

In the first paragraph of the dynastic rule “Tier 6: The Wall”, replace “any dynastic action” with “any Existential Action or Weekly Action”.

i think it would be more intuitive if The Wall’s restrictions matched the restrictions that came with realities with tiers higher than your level.

previously, this changed “Tier 6: The Wall” into the following:

For the purposes of the rule “Levels of Reality”, a Mindjacker always treats Tier Rules with a Tier of 4 or lower as if those rules’ Tiers were higher than their own Level.
A Mindjacker who loses a personal gamestate variable due to this rule and then later regains that variable shall have that variable reset to its starting value upon regaining it, unless the action that returns the variable to them also sets it to another value.

i changed that because it was too difficult to navigate. i do still think that The Wall currently suffers from a case of what-is-a-dynastic-action-really-itis, though. so, edited.

Comments

Bucky:

09-06-2023 07:06:14 UTC

The idea behind the current version is that the post-Wall players get the drawbacks like Ascension Criteria but not the benefits. While there isn’t much post-Wall content, what there is already contains at least one breakage where a post-Wall rule refers to a pre-wall definition.

This proposal also needs to amend the “A Mindjacker whose level falls below the Tier of the definition” in 2.1 to make it clearly apply.

summai:

09-06-2023 07:25:13 UTC

Strong redex. The lower Tier rules still apply after Tier 6, it’s just that we won’t be allowed to take actions defined in those rules.

While it might be benificial to make precise what those actions are (eg. adding a qualifier that Existential Actions can’t be carried out), acting as if the entire rules are flavour text is going too far.

lemon: she/her

09-06-2023 07:25:46 UTC

@Bucky edited! it now also removes the reference to suspicion from the upper Tiers and adds the required clarification to The Wall.

Josh: he/they

09-06-2023 08:27:36 UTC

This breaks things, sadly - for example, Matterium harvesting is an action whose ruletext, generation and use is currently split between Tiers 4, 5 and 8, meaning that there would be no way to ever generate or use it were this to pass.

I don’t have a problem with a stronger wall but think it should be limited to defining interactions, rather than creating new and possibly perverse ruletext use cases - a Mindjacker at Tier 6 not being able to make another Mindjacker or Avatar whose Level / Occupancy Tier is below Tier 5 the target of their action, for example.

Josh: he/they

09-06-2023 08:28:11 UTC

4, 5, 8 and 9 I should say.

lemon: she/her

09-06-2023 08:48:25 UTC

hmmm, yeah. good points all. this is a tricky one, & i’m not sure how to approach it in a way that doesn’t break something!
considering that… i think i’ll just rework this one entirely into something simpler then, because my real problem is just that the Wall as-is is unclear as to *how* much it blocks, on account of the “what is a dynastic action really?” issue.

Josh: he/they

09-06-2023 12:44:35 UTC

for

JonathanDark: Publisher he/him

09-06-2023 14:08:37 UTC

for

Bucky:

09-06-2023 23:04:28 UTC

for

Raven1207: he/they

10-06-2023 02:21:46 UTC

for