Thursday, June 21, 2012

Proposal: Rules, we got them

Timed out and passed, 8-0. Josh

Adminned at 24 Jun 2012 00:40:23 UTC

Add the following two entries to the Glossary of Keywords in the Appendix of the ruleset, each assuming their respective alphabetical position in the list:

Rule: Each individually numbered section of the ruleset is a rule, including sections that are sub-rules of other rules.

Subrule: A subrule is a type of rule that is nested within another rule. A proposal that specifically affects a rule affects all of its subrules; a proposal that specifically affects a subrule does not affect its parent rule or any other subrule of that rule, unless they are also explicitly cited as being affected by that proposal.

Comments

quirck: he/him

21-06-2012 10:38:27 UTC

I’d say not proposal, but Votable Matter, so as to take into account CfJ as well.
And.. “a proposal that specifically affects a subrule does not affect its parent rule or any other subrule of that rule” -> a votable matter that specifically affects a subrule does not affect its parent rule or its sibling rules, but affects subrules of the subrule. Though I haven’t met subsubrules yet :)

Josh: Observer he/they

21-06-2012 11:08:18 UTC

As subrules are also rules, the second revision isn’t needed - it’s implicit in “a proposal that specifically affects a rule affects all of its subrules.”

quirck: he/him

21-06-2012 11:34:08 UTC

Are the subsubrules subrules of the rule? Then a proposal at the same time affects the subsubrule as a subrule of the subrule, and doesn’t affect the subsubrule as a subrule of the rule. %)

Josh: Observer he/they

21-06-2012 12:06:48 UTC

No, a subrule of a subrule is also a subrule, ubrule just being defined as “a rule that is nested within another rule”.

Josh: Observer he/they

21-06-2012 12:07:08 UTC

Subrule now means nothing to me. Subrule. Subrule. What a stupid word.

quirck: he/him

21-06-2012 12:23:52 UTC

Sorry, I didn’t get it. Let’s say there is a proposal that suggests a word replacement throughout a subrule 2.3.4. Does it affect 2.3.4.5? On the one hand, 2.3.4.5 is a subrule of 2.3.4, so it should be affected. But on the other hand, 2.3.4.5 is a subrule of 2.3, and is “other subrule” than 2.3.4 (meaning it’s not the exact same rule), so it should not be affected.

And another question: is subrule 2.3.4 considered to be a part of the rule 2.3 in the sense that the text of the rule 2.3 includes the text of the subrule 2.3.4?

Josh: Observer he/they

21-06-2012 12:33:51 UTC

Both fair questions, and this proposal doesn’t really answer them. Suggestions for alternate wording? Perhaps just to make it so that proposals never automatically affect a rule’s subrules under any circumstances.

Klisz:

21-06-2012 12:42:36 UTC

for

Rodney:

21-06-2012 12:47:29 UTC

for

quirck: he/him

21-06-2012 12:51:44 UTC

Hmm, actually I’d suggest that the rule contains all its subrules, otherwise there would be no point in making subrules.

Rule: Each individually numbered section of the ruleset is a rule. A rule has a name, a text, and any number (possibly zero) of subrules.
Subrule: A subrule is a type of rule that is contained in another rule.

This way if a proposal affects a rule 2.3, it affects the whole section 2.3 of the ruleset, with all the subrules 2.3.x as its parts. If a proposal affects a subrule 2.3.4, then it affects only this rule and its subrules 2.3.4.x, but not 2.3 since it is not part of the rule 2.3.4.

Do I miss something?

Josh: Observer he/they

21-06-2012 12:59:52 UTC

The problem is, if a proposal says “In the rule which contains the line ‘blah de blah’”, and blah de blah appears in 2.3.4.5, that proposal is then referring to 2.3.4.5, 2.3.4, and 2.3 all at the same time.

quirck: he/him

21-06-2012 13:14:12 UTC

Oh, yes. So that’s why it’s better not to include rules this way, I see…

Then,
Rule: Each individually numbered section of the ruleset is a rule. A rule has a name, and a text.

And for subrule maybe somehow to mention the structure of its number? Say, a subrule is a type of rule, which number is the number of another rule called its parent rule followed by a dot and a positive integer. Not the best wording probably.

Then if a proposal affects a rule, it does not affect its subrules unless explicitly stated otherwise.

redtara: they/them

21-06-2012 13:35:17 UTC

for

Kevan: he/him

21-06-2012 13:45:55 UTC

[Josh] To be fair, my “the rule with this text” wording was really just a clumsy dodge of the Retheme proposal’s “reword all future proposals” (I wasn’t sure if it would rename the rules or not, as rule titles aren’t rule text, but I should have just called it by number) - I doubt this exact problem has ever come up before, or will again.

scshunt:

21-06-2012 14:47:22 UTC

for

Kevan: he/him

21-06-2012 16:13:21 UTC

for

Henri:

22-06-2012 01:06:59 UTC

for

moonroof:

22-06-2012 15:05:46 UTC

for