BlogNomic: The First Dynasty of Desertfrog

So, this is a 60% chance to win for Diabecko, and if they decline, pokes. (I wanted to wait for card’s opinion on what order to choose but I didn’t have time to so I just went with Diabecko first because we’ve had collaboration in the dynasty before)

And a 20% win for card and 20% for me.

THE PLAYSSSS :P

The Government has just delivered two Crowbars to assist the Residents in resolving any stalemate meritocratically.

It’s still down to conspiring or proposing to change the game, because Diabecko and pokes are Suspicious towards each other! They can’t use the crowbars without conspirators!

Quorum is still 3, Diabecko and card, let’s go!

I don’t think you should get 20% win equity for brokering this deal, and I think it stiffs me a bit.

I’m curious though if I missed something that would get me 5 money this crate, since I started with 3 and would need to use both cractions to exchange.

I think they were taking into account the possibility that card, through some deal with you, would give you their money, or they maybe forgot that you can’t sell your worn rope.

@Pokes: Card needs to give you now a Money.

(or maybe I missed something :D)

“When a Crate is discarded, if a single Resident is carrying five Money Supplies”

Well noticed ;-). So maybe things aren’t over yet…

- Right now in “vacuum”, Diabecko wins.
- If Card gives a Money to Pokes, neither can win and we’re in a stalemate that has to be broken by proposal or Pokes/Diabecko agreeing between each other who should win (which I believe would be a 50/50 toss).
- This proposal is better than a 50/50 toss, its 60 for one of you (and 20 for me and card who otherwise had no chance to win)

That’s the summary of the idea.

(Of course, it would be better for me to propose 51% instead of 60%, or pokes could ante up and propose 30-70 to Diabecko, but I opted not to be too finicky with numbers lol)

By the way, this was your initial plan wasn’t it :) ? To commit suicide so that Pokes get’s your money, and then to earn one more money to give them directly ?

My initial plan was very similar to this but what I did now is a better version than that one.

(I PMed it to Kevan btw, the original, so that he wouldn’t believe that I was stalling the game, because it really did seem like I was trashing it by suiciding. I was making plays!)

“If Card gives a Money to Pokes, neither can win and we’re in a stalemate that has to be broken by proposal or Pokes/Diabecko agreeing between each other who should win” - it can also be broken by Card knocking Diabecko out (or changing their mind and knocking Pokes out), or Cuddlebeam knocking Pokes out. It’d take a good few Crates to get the necessary items lined up and applied, but it’s not as impossible as you suggest here.

If card wants to benefit Diabecko he could just choose to not send pokes Money and let him win (which is necessary for anything further at all. Not sending pokes Money is pretty much giving Diabecko victory right now.)

Benefitting pokes is also doable, with the crowbarring as you mentioned.

But then I’d be able to load up card with Money as well and force another tie (Unless card just straight up throws the game for poke’s win in which case there isn’t much I can do. But I’m assuming he wants a chance to win himself, too.)

TL;DR: My plans turn to pudding if card isn’t interested in winning and chooses to throw the game in favor of one side for an external bribe.

(not necessarily a bribe, but an different reward in general, sorry)

Side note: While a hypothetical win is at stake, I was browsing BlogNomic history and learned of the 2011 Agoran invasion. Sounds like an epic moment :D.

So anyways, to make a bad pun, it’s all in card’s hands right now…

Supposing that card were to pick a winner, they could force myself and Diabecko into a bidding war for a higher and higher chance of passing the mantle to card, ending in a bid of 100%.

I don’t intend to have a whole bidding war though. I’d be happy with a well-deserved Diabecko win if this crate turns up that way.

So in deciding whether or not to engage in a bidding war, I choose a winner between card and Diabecko. Maybe you two should bid on my cooperation, hmmmm…? :)

How would card win though?

[pokes] Card isn’t picking a winner, though, they’re choosing whether Diabecko is the winner. A 50% offer from Diabecko at this point would be more valuable than a 50% offer from you, as yours still depends on you reaching victory in the future.

[Cuddlebeam] I really can’t see any moral or tactical superiority in Card voting for this coin flip, over informally agreeing a (probably much higher) coin flip for letting Diabecko win directly. It could set the lower bound of Diabecko’s offer, except that this proposal requires Diabecko’s support to pass.

@Kevan: I’m offering an actual win here though. Diabecko (without someone else) can’t give that, without just conceding a win themselves.

(as a still-new-to-the-game player I feel a bit lost in all these suggestions…)

[Cuddlebeam] I don’t think anyone else perceives any difference between a win and a mantle-pass, in a situation where the mantle is being passed to a player who assisted the win.

I was (mostly) joking about any bidding wars. If it were to happen, I believe that the actual game-theoretical equilibrium for this as a 3 player game, assuming a coalition of card and I can win with probability p, is me and card each have a fair p/3 in the win and Diabecko has (1-2p/3). This also assuming coalitions of card and Diabecko or Diabecko and I would win easily.

@Kevan: I still haven’t heard card (or poke’s or Diabecko’s, for that matter), talk about how they perceive that, where have you heard it..?

@Diabecko: It could get even more crazy with Raena joining lol.

I percieve almost no difference between being the author of a greenticked DoV and getting mantlepassed to as part of a win-equity arrangement

Ah, well OK.

(I still do not get that idea lol, it seems so weird.)

It would be a fun idea though to make the difference explicit - like, right now the (Nth dynasty of Z) is the win record as determined by mantlepassing, but what if we had a parallel system of titles awarded by having the actual DoV. If Diabecko had the DoV but passed by card, card would run the dynasty but Diabecko could also forever be Cratemaster.

*passed it to

I would tend to agree that if it’s a proper team win then both members of the team have equal merit, so both deserve the mantle. The problem I have lies more in the one not getting the mantle. Maybe it’s me being weird but I don’t see what they gain in the process. No dynasty, no ascension address, just a win-for-the-sake-of-winning. Not really interested in that, so yeah I don’t mind losing if the only way to win is passing the mantle.

[pokes] I didn’t see your post before making mine. Your suggestion would solve my problem by awarding something to the mantle-passer

[Cuddlebeam] I mean anyone else who’s ever played BlogNomic. There’s a long history of flipping coins to pass mantles, and I don’t remember anyone ever complaining that they weren’t getting “an actual win”. It seems natural enough, given that named dynasties are the more visible record of game success, and “wins” are lost in the minutiae of wiki history. If it was the other way around, we’d see people offering coinflips weighted away from them because they wanted the “actual win” more than they wanted the next dynasty.

I like Pokes’ idea of titles. It’s just another thing to negotiate - in most coin-toss situations, it’s a group of players who can pool resources into somebody to make them win, and they’d just be deciding who got the title and who got the dynasty - but it’d be nice to try to compile it. Maybe we could get a dynasty out of doing that.

@Pokes: I perceive it as the Cratemaster thing without that rule. We already have a term for “Cratemaster” - it’s being the person who achieved victory! You won the game, why do we need two terms for the same thing?

I think what Pokes means is having it recorded somewhere visible, the way the dynasty name clearly shows who got the mantle.

(To clarify what I previously said: if someone offered me a 50-50 win deal, with the winner passing the mantle to the other, and I was chosen as the winner-but-mantle-passer, I wouldn’t mind directly giving the win to the other. This is what I meant when I said “I don’t mind losing etc.”)

I guess that makes me a mantle goldmine for the rest lol.

And these comments are coming up so flipping fast lol.

Would be very anticlimactic if card timed out in this crate.

I was asleep and come back to 5 pms and a post with 42 comments? What’s next the slack getting 30 posts in one day?

[Cuddlebeam] one thing you might have missed in making this is that I can force whoever I’m making a deal with to not choose this. Since everyone who doesn’t benefit is going to vote against this, it will pass at a 3-2 if all are in favor, making my vote a swing vote. Also your conditional for pokes doesn’t require him to vote for it, so there’s no reason for him to not vote against until the last minute.