Wednesday, August 16, 2023

Proposal: The City Never Sleeps

Withdrawn. Failed by Kevan.

Adminned at 18 Aug 2023 08:38:55 UTC

Add a new rule called “The City”:-

The City’s priorities are as follows:-

# Resolve the oldest pending proposal
# Pose a Dilemma
# All other dynastic actions

The City should not take an action on that list if it would be possible for them to take one with a lower number instead. If it is possible for the City to Pose a Dilemma, or to resolve proposals in order that they might then immediately Pose a Dilemma, the City should do so at its earliest opportunity.

Whenever the City is required to select something at random, they may instead do this in a secretly random manner.

Remove “(Whenever the City is required to select something at random, they may instead do this in a secretly random manner.)” from the rule “Dilemmas”.

Explicit statement on when and in what order I’ll take game actions, so that I can just obey an agreed rule without having to worry about the “when taking any actions - including voting - will try to be fair to all players” of my Imperial Style. This proposal says that I’ll always clear the queue before posting a new Dilemma (because those proposals might affect it), and I’ll continue to post Dilemmas early in the day.

posted by Kevan at 16 Aug 2023 17:31:00 UTC Comments (8)

Comments

Bucky:

16-08-2023 18:08:19 UTC

Is this intended to require the City to veto the entire queue before Posing each Dilemma?

Kevan: City he/him

16-08-2023 18:22:06 UTC

Take a guess.

Kevan: City he/him

16-08-2023 19:19:36 UTC

I’ll bump the “may not take an action on that list” down to an optional “should”, in case Bucky has some kind of valid point to make here, since I’m not going to see it before the four-hour window closes.

lendunistus: he/him

16-08-2023 19:35:12 UTC

@Kevan bucky’s point was that since the step above “Pose a Dilemma” is “Resolve the oldest pending proposal”, you’d be required to somehow clear the queue before being able to pose a dilemma

I don’t think it’s an issue since it technically wouldn’t be possible to resolve a proposal before it gets quorum/times out, even though you have a veto

Josh: he/they

16-08-2023 19:57:54 UTC

Mm, it boils down to whether “resolve the oldest pending proposal” is limited to the keyword action called ‘resolving’ or extends to doing anything within your means necessary to ensure that resolution takes place. I don’t think Bucky has *no* point, here, although it could perhaps have been expressed more directly.

lemon: she/her

16-08-2023 21:55:52 UTC

for

Josh: he/they

17-08-2023 09:24:33 UTC

against On balance I think Bucky is more right than wrong. “If it would be possible” seems too widely interpretable to completely defeat the “veto the queue” argument, and that would apply as soon as this was enacted.

Kevan: City he/him

17-08-2023 10:05:44 UTC

Hmm, I think I’d interpret “is it possible to do X” as meaning “is it possible as a game action right now”, in a game rules context.

Maybe we do tend to shy away from using the concept of possible moves, though, given that we’re playing a game of self-amendment, where it’s always an option to pass a quick CfJ (with however much bribery is needed to get supporting votes) to make any gamestate change.

against Withdrawn.