pointless, unless there is some deeper scam going here which knowing ais there probably is so

@Clucky: I have a recently failed DoV. The rules prevent declaring victory twice within 72 hours.

As such, without this CFJ or something similar enacting, I will not be able to make a DoV post.

oops lol guess you shouldn’t have tried your scam oh well moving on vote stays

I agree that Ais has won via the process stated in Lacunexit, and would rather not wait 3 days for an already-won Dynasty to officially end. It was neat to see so many people unidle to claim a slice of the Equity, and now that a winner has been chosen in a way that respects the un-idling/reinitialising fun, I see no benefit to prolonging what is basically a “done deal”.

we don’t have to wait three days. just vote on https://blognomic.com/archive/none_of_this and someone else can win =D

@Clucky You have no chance of winning from None Of This passing. Why would you prefer that proposal to this CfJ?

seems fairer to the other players in that proposal not to bypass the rules

also the complaining about the unidling / supporting dubious loopholes / constant attempts at scamming / “I’ve won two roll-off dice rolls so far” all rub me the wrong way and so I see no reason to reward that sort of behavior with my votes

...You illegally reopened a proposal without properly counting it’s votes because you don’t like the result of a previous proposal. Said previous proposal is one you voted for because you wanted to exploit a loophole that it allowed. You voted against the CfJ “My Stance” because of a logical issue you had with SB’s actions, and only changed you vote after Ais won, with the reasoning “it would be funny”.
You have no issue with bypassing the rules. Ais won by properly-weighted dice roll twice, and if we count their previous scam attempt as legitimate, then they won 3 times in total. You had no part in this Dynasty until about 5 hours ago, and as soon as the second roll chose Ais, you decided to completely switch gears to “maximum chaos”. You’ve stated that Ais tried a scam and now has “consequences”- you tried your scam, Ais still won with your scam in play, and now you’re attempting to break the game that other people played.
What part of any of that, exactly, values fairness?

The genie is out of the bottle now, Clucky.

The CfJ I re-opened had the wrong count on it. I just got confused by the path and reclosed it.

ais tried to pull a scam around reinitialization only to back off once he won

if he can’t take the kind of nomic play he dishes out, that is his problem

also what scam did I try?

You are the one who realized the Reinitialising/Unidling scam loophole, and proceeded to encourage as many people as possible to use it. That is the scam you tried. It did not give you the results you wanted, but the result you *got* was fair, and now you’re ignoring even your own previous arguments to vote in a way that breaks the game as much as possible for “maximum chaos”, even though it’s a game you didn’t play or build. I wouldn’t call that “Nomic play”, I’d call it a tantrum.

As such, I will be respecting Ais’ win, and not voting for proposals or CfJs that might break it.

I’m going to hold off on voting on this as I want Kevan to talk a bit about the dice roller before making a judgement about the fairness of the outcome of the rolls. I’m worried that it has a low result bias.

its not really a scam to take advantage of an option that was left into a proposal

not sure why you’re getting upset at me, and not getting upset at ais for changing their tune from “this was illegal and won’t work and I’m going to try and gum up the system” to “never mind because it helps me I’m fine with it”

why do we need to bypass the standard rule of play here?

I agree that the dice have brought you up twice, and following Clucky’s test it seems that the roller is mostly fair.

That said, in this pure nomic dynasty, I don’t see a reason to especially privilege one victory claim when it runs up against the rules. If no-one else achieved victory in the next howevermany hours (50ish?) then you can post you DoV and we’ll see how the votes go. If not then… Unlucky, but that’s the rules of the game as written. We had the chance to repeal that rule early in the dynasty and that opportunity was not taken, so now we have to live with it.

per Josh. Ais could have argued for Lacunexit including a carveout clause for a repeat DoV.

@Kevan: No I couldn’t. I was asleep when it was originally posted (and besides, we don’t have an edit window this dynasty, so I had no chance of arguing for that in edit window). Given how many players were trying to force it through, I don’t think I could have persuaded Josh (who was asleep) to withdraw it for corrections – and given that it had much bigger problems, I’d much rather have voted it down.

It possibly enacted regardless (at least, an admin attempted to enact it), but it wasn’t me who voted it through.

My position is – if people want to resolve this dynasty with a roll-off, which is what they voted for, then the dice have spoken. Right now we’re in a cycle of “roll the dice, then if you don’t like the result, point out the flaws in the dice roll” – that isn’t a roll-off, as the conditional pointing out of flaws biases the probabilities, and it also won’t lead to an end of the dynasty because every proposal to roll off is highly flawed and we don’t have a fully working random number generator. Two “close enough” roll-offs have happened, and this CFJ gives the opportunity to honour the (identical) results, for people who actually care about actually doing a roll-off rather than causing chaos – yes, there were rules problems both times, which is why blessing the results need a CFJ. But we frequently use CFJs to resolve rules issues that are preventing a dynasty continuing normally, which is what happened here.

So, on thinking about this, I don’t really think there can be any other winner than ais.
ais523 is the one that got the highest Equity, triggered Lacuna to keep the lead, won the first dice roll (except by technicality), and won the second dice roll under considerably more improbable conditions.

With things as they are, I don’t think we’ll actually be able to find a fair winner out of this mess of a current gamestate so this is the fairest win we’ll get.