Thursday, August 17, 2023

Proposal: Thinking Outside the Box

Fewer than a quorum not voting AGAINST, a 2-vs-2 tiebreak being broken by the Imperial Deferential. Failed by Kevan.

Adminned at 18 Aug 2023 10:41:43 UTC

Add the following rule, called “Alternate Outcomes”, to the dynastic ruleset:

Posing Another Outcome is an atomic action that consists of the following steps:
* Choose an Ongoing Dilemma that at least two Districts have not yet Reacted to.
* Select one Upside and one Downside at random. If this pairing matches one of the Outcomes on the chosen Dilemma, randomly select either the Upside or the Downside and randomly change it to a different consequence of the same Upside/Downside type. Repeat this until you have a pairing that does not match one of the chosen Dilemma’s Outcomes.
* Make a comment (referred to as an Outcome Comment) on the chosen Dilemma which includes the Upside and Downside pairing generated in the previous step as an Outcome. This comment should include a name and narrative description for this new Outcome.

After an Outcome Comment is posted, any District may select its Outcome while Deciding on the Dilemma that that Outcome Comment was posted to, as if it was one of the two Outcomes of that Dilemma.

If https://blognomic.com/archive/batteries_not_included1 was not enacted, replace “at least two Districts” with “at least three Districts” in the above rule.

Add the following entries to the table of Innovations:

|-
| Societal || Communal Sway || 2 || None || If your People exceeds the People of the District with the 3rd-highest People by 20 or more, you may spend 1 Order to Pose Another Outcome.
|-
| Technological || Gadget Repository || 1 || Shared Wisdom || You may spend 1 Ingenuity to Pose Another Outcome.

In the rule “Into the Storm”, append the following bullet point after the bullet point that begins “When Posing a Dilemma”:

* When Posing Another Outcome, a District randomly selects three Downsides instead of one, and lists all Downsides when posting the Outcome Comment.

this is long, but it’s really just one mechanic: the unlockable ability to pose another outcome that both you and the other districts can use! the motivation for the Batteries Not Included conditional is that i think reactions will generally be faster if that proposal does get enacted than if it doesn’t. i considered a “that no-one has yet reacted to” clause instead, but that felt unnecessarily restrictive.

Comments

JonathanDark: he/him

17-08-2023 13:14:57 UTC

One thing this doesn’t have, which may be on purpose, is the avoidance of an Outcome that duplicates an existing one, and the avoidance of an Outcome that causes effectively nothing to happen if the gain and loss are for the same value.

lemon: she/her

17-08-2023 13:25:20 UTC

that’s mostly to shorten it, ‘cause this is text-heavy enough as-is — i’d support another proposal to add those things, but i’d also be fine with the bonus outcome being null (you spent a resource for it, so now you get a free pass). i guess it’s pretty rough if you spend a resource to get a duplicate of one of the extant outcomes though… yeah, on second thought i’ll edit that in. a null Alternate Outcome is fine IMO though :0

JonathanDark: he/him

17-08-2023 13:28:57 UTC

A null Alternate Outcome is fine by me in this case.

Kevan: City he/him

17-08-2023 16:10:21 UTC

imperial This will delay some Reactions, once either Innovation is on the table, if people are tempted to wait and see whether a better option comes along. Might be less distracting if the action somehow shaped the upcoming Dilemma instead.

JonathanDark: he/him

17-08-2023 16:16:55 UTC

On the other hand, it opens up even more opportunities for favour-trading and other interactions between Districts, per our earlier discussions on Allocate.

for

Kevan: City he/him

17-08-2023 16:33:57 UTC

I think that’s the same hand, the hand of it mattering too much at which hour of the day you’re able to perform your Reaction.

Josh: he/they

17-08-2023 19:32:55 UTC

against Sucks to have reacted only to have another option show up.

JonathanDark: he/him

17-08-2023 20:55:46 UTC

It also sucks to React only to have a new Dilemma show up that might have changed your decision on which Outcome to take, e.g. a combination of Outcomes from two Dilemmas that could have been a net gain for you. I wouldn’t propose to force two Dilemmas to be posted at once just to nullify that issue, though, because the choice of how long to wait for the next Dilemma is interesting enough.

The case where there might be unfairness, in my opinion, is where you’re asleep or otherwise unable to React close to the deadline, so you choose to React, and then someone pulls the trigger before the deadline to give themselves and anyone else who’s still around a chance to React with the new Alternate Outcome.

I would support an amendment to Posing Another Outcome to require it to be done within the first 24 hours of a Dilemma being posted, to negate the above unfairness. With that in place, if you React too quickly knowing that a rival District could Pose Another Outcome, that’s an unforced decision on your part.

lemon: she/her

18-08-2023 02:55:02 UTC

perhaps we could make it so that, in the wake of Another Outcome, players can sometimeschange their decision?

i feel like making it apply to the upcoming dilemma would be not so good; the entire niche for this mechanic is for when you can’t afford either of the current Outcomes, or really need a specific type of Outcome that hasn’t come up!

for either of these changes, i’d also want it to reduce the costs involved, since it would lose either some or most of its value :0

Kevan: City he/him

18-08-2023 09:08:11 UTC

Being able to choose some aspect of the future Outcome would be another route to consider, to balance it.

lendunistus: he/him

18-08-2023 10:30:38 UTC

against

I agree with Josh. a system like this could work but i’d either make it exclusive to the player who used it or find some other way to get rid of the timing aspect