Wednesday, May 03, 2023

Proposal: Third Bid

Vetoed. Josh

Adminned at 04 May 2023 12:10:56 UTC

To the rule “The Chopping Block”, add:-

Each Engineer holds a number of Permits, tracked in this rule.

If nobody has already done so during the current dynasty, any Engineer or the City Architect may perform a Final Topple by randomly selecting a Permit from all those held by Engineers. Upon doing so, the Engineer who holds the selected Permit achieves victory.

The Engineer named Josh holds 30 Permits.
The Engineer named Taiga holds 10 Permits.
The Engineer named Kevan holds 8 Permits.
The Engineer named Brendan holds 5 Permits.
The Engineer named jjm3x3 holds 5 Permits.
The Engineer named Summai holds 2 Permits.

Then, if Brendan included the phrase “Safety First” in their EVC on this proposal, increase their and Josh’s Permits by 5.

The Bargaining Table has been laid out for 32 hours now and the only chops proposed have been those which went up for voting yesterday (Josh/other at 80/20, or a pure random), so here’s mine.

Both of these outcomes are 50% Josh and a 50% split between Brendan/Kevan/jjm3x3/Taiga, with Taiga and myself receiving twice the split of Brendan and Jjm3x3 based on our stated awareness and intention to block Josh’s loophole with a second loophole and stalemate the game. Habanero was in my originally proposed split but said in comments at the Table they do not want any share of the chop. Summai also gets 20% of my split to honour how a private conversation about the game informed my understanding of the Demolition loophole.

Adding a window for Brendan to claim that they also saw and confidently intended to use a loophole, since at time of proposing they hadn’t yet commented on the Bargaining Table.

Comments

redtara: they/them

03-05-2023 09:13:38 UTC

I would like some permits please.

Josh: Observer he/they

03-05-2023 09:28:29 UTC

Yeah, this allocation is wild.

50% for my merit position seems low, which makes sense, as your equation is based on the assumption that players wouldn’t eventually vote to fix the game, which I obviously dispute, as sitting in logjam forever is not to anyone’s advantage.

As for the remainder of the split… I’m not going to consider Brendan as he will always vote for the proposal that gives himself the most equity, and none of us need a Brendan bidding war. Habanero wants out, so you’re proposing that jim3x3, Taiga and yourself each get equity for essentially nothing, despite being a well sub-quorum minority and having no merit gamestate position.

Under the assumption that the game is logjammed behind the Demolitions-not-working block, the three of you are exactly as potent as JonathanDark (who seems to be excluded for no reason), RedTara and Titanic, in that you all have a vote and would contribute the the outcome of the resolving CfJ.

Any why does Summai only get 20% of your equity rather than a full stake themselves?

This seems like a proposal designed to min-max the share of a sub-quorum minority at the expense of everyone else rather than fairly resolve the game in a way that reflects its actual position.

Kevan: he/him

03-05-2023 10:43:22 UTC

This was all laid in my opening comment on the Bargaining Table. It’s a split among all players who could have plausibly called a deadlock on the game; those with fewer than 21 SCs are not included. Having built up enough resources to block a loophole is not a “no merit gamestate position”.

If I was here for min-maxing bidding wars over players with no gamestate merit I would be raising your existing 1% split to Redtara. But I’m looking for a solution that the active players can agree on.

I’m sorry to hear that you think a proposal giving you three times the credit of any other player for this dynasty is “wild” and that you instead deserve nineteen times the credit, but I just don’t agree with that, in a situation where one loophole was cut off into a stalemate by another.

redtara: they/them

03-05-2023 10:44:23 UTC

@Kevan I choose to believe Josh’s gesture was one of harmony and fairness

Josh: Observer he/they

03-05-2023 10:52:48 UTC

The 21 SCs thing is a smokescreen though, right? Because we’ve agreed in Bargaining Table that the demolitions rule is broken, that responses to it legally can’t be made, so 21 SCs is an irrelevant threshold - demolitions cannot currently be legally closed, the only way to resolve this is by CfJ.

Do you agree with that position or don’t you?

This chop - let’s ignore my share for a moment - this chop assumes that anybody without 21 SCs has no equity. But at the very least there is an argument that anybody with a vote on the CfJ has equity. How much equity you put into that varies based on how plausible you think the no-responses-to-a-demolition-are-legal argument is, or how likely you think it is that that argument would win out in a CfJ. But the assessment that no player with less than 21 SCs has any equity at all might be the most distorted read of the current gamestate I could conceive of. It’s a nomic! Anyone with a vote has equity, even JD with his victory-blocking Accident and jjm with their -300 Expertise.

Say what you like about my assessment of my own odds: at least my chop respects the fact that we’re playing a nomic and respects the other players of that nomic.

Kevan: he/him

03-05-2023 11:12:04 UTC

[Redtara] Good for you, we should all try to assume good faith of our fellow players! I’m responding to Josh’s suggestion that my own proposal here is “designed to min-max the share of a sub-quorum minority at the expense of everyone else”; if it was, I would have added a slice for you, or be rushing to add one now. Afraid I’m not going to do that.

[Josh] I don’t think it’s healthy for the Nomic to slice the chop so thinly that there’s a small chance of the least active players winning the game. It gets votes, but it sends a message that hanging around taking up space in a dynasty you aren’t playing will sometimes pay off.

I posted the first draft of this chop 36 hours ago for feedback. Taiga and Redtara asked for more equity, Habanero for less, you dismissed it out of hand. Jonathan’s opening pitch at the Bargaining Table was that they deserved 0% of the chop - and that you deserved three times mine, which is what I’ve ended up going for here, while acknowledging that several other players could have also done the thing that I’d spotted.

redtara: they/them

03-05-2023 11:50:12 UTC

Well then against

Josh: Observer he/they

03-05-2023 11:53:48 UTC

against

Lulu: she/her

03-05-2023 14:13:59 UTC

imperial

summai:

03-05-2023 19:32:47 UTC

for If this gets enacted and I end up winning, I’ll make a post for making a reroll.

Brendan: he/him

03-05-2023 20:02:23 UTC

none of us need a Brendan bidding war

Not NONE of us.

Lulu: she/her

03-05-2023 21:01:23 UTC

against COV

JonathanDark: he/him

03-05-2023 22:13:07 UTC

against

Bucky:

03-05-2023 23:11:08 UTC

against

Benbot: he/him

03-05-2023 23:56:50 UTC

against

Benbot: he/him

03-05-2023 23:57:21 UTC

against

Lulu: she/her

04-05-2023 00:44:26 UTC

veto This was a mistake.