Friday, January 30, 2015

Story Post: Trial: We’re quite paranoid

Has been open for over 24 hours and cannot be enacted. Failed by Brendan.

Adminned at 31 Jan 2015 02:39:16 UTC

I’m looking at Sylphrena’s game actions and I’m reasonably sure he’s an Android.

Note the mass of Proposals by Sylphrena in a seeming attempt to insinuate that he is not an Android. While you could argue that a human might also do this, the level of activity from Sylphrena to insinuate that he is not an Android seems to indicate that he is in fact an Android. The quantity of such Proposals from Sylphrena has been grand, and they have yet to make a post (besides the phone troubleshooting) that does not pertain to this ulterior agenda. This shows that he is an Android because Androids get an added benefit when Humans perceive that they are not Androids due to the secretive nature of the game.

For the purpose of this trial, I’d like to make public a certain correspondence that transpired between Sylphrena and myself:

Me: Human, 0. If I suspect foul play, I’ll not give you updates as more people respond to my survey.

Them: I’m human as well.

Lastly, I’d like to point out that Androids have very little, if anything, to lose from lying about their humanity.

Comments

Doctor29:

30-01-2015 04:18:41 UTC

Remember, Androids are active about 28 hours a day.
(Source: Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep, Phillip K Dick)

Sylphrena:

30-01-2015 04:36:56 UTC

I haven’t been insinuating that I am not an Android. Since I am human, my gameplay tends to be pro-human. Basically, what Ayesdeeef is saying here is “Ooooh, Sylphrena has been doing things gameplay-wise and not doing as much nomic-wise! HE MUST BE AN ANDROID!”

As a side note, I don’t see how that conversation is relevant. (For context, he asked for my type, and I asked in return for his type and the number of people who had told him their type.) By publishing that discussion, Ayesdeeef is essentially saying “Ooooh, Sylphrena said he’s human! HE MUST BE AN ANDROID!”

This “evidence” is not just circumstantial. It’s silly. I’m not even sure if this is an actual trial. (Does it have to be in the sidebar to be considered one?) We should be better than this.

Bucky:

30-01-2015 06:08:24 UTC

Sylphrena: This is a valid Trial, despite not being in the sidebar.

I don’t want this to go through until I’ve had time to consider the evidence, so against  as a temporary vote.

Bucky:

30-01-2015 06:15:42 UTC

In the meantime, Ayesdeeef, what sort of post could he have made that you would not interpret as “insinuate that he is not an Android”, would be meaningful to the game, and would also not be self-incriminating for some other reason? 

ayesdeeef:

30-01-2015 16:26:55 UTC

1) Sylphrena proposed a rule change that had no chance of passing—the Androids have no reason not to kill a proposal that limits their veto.
2) Sylphrena’s proposal shockingly got sabotaged, and immediately afterward, Sylphrena helpfully added Paranoid to their own Emotions.
3) This makes the Atmosphere Paranoid—something it would not have done if someone hadn’t MD1C’d me just beforehand.
4) Sylphrena takes advantage of the Atmosphere to start our first trial, which was much more likely to target a human than an android, and in fact did so.

This is additional evidence that Brendan noted.

Now to answer Bucky’s Question:
Mob Justice, Quis Custodet, But Verify, and even Late Scan Detection are examples of recent nuetral Proposals. What is notable here with Sylphrena’s behavior is the lack of Proposals that do not pertain to hurting Androids specifically and the sheer amount of activity by Sylphrena relative to other players.

ayesdeeef:

30-01-2015 16:44:39 UTC

In addition to the possibility of randomly being named as an Android at the start of the game, Sylphrena is also the ONLY player to have been scanned. That is a 20% chance of being an Android just as a result of being scanned.

Bucky:

30-01-2015 16:55:51 UTC

“Defrosting Instructions” is still pending.  So no, there’s not a 20% chance he’s an Android from being scanned.

Bucky:

30-01-2015 17:07:30 UTC

Slyphrena: Would you please explain the motivation behind the suspicious proposal “Insight”?

Sylphrena:

30-01-2015 17:13:21 UTC

That was intended as a baseline to discover people’s voting habits. It was poorly conceived for a number of reasons, but I proposed it to find out how people would react to a proposal which looked legitimate at first glance but in reality didn’t do anything.

Josh: Observer he/they

30-01-2015 18:20:33 UTC

That explanation is clearly nonsense, right?

Sylphrena:

30-01-2015 18:31:28 UTC

I’m unclear if you understand what I said but don’t believe me or if you don’t understand what I said at all.

Josh: Observer he/they

30-01-2015 18:44:38 UTC

I understand the words and sentences but it’s completely incredible as an actual explanation of actions.

I mean, sure, people make poorly thought through proposals all the time, but I have to admit that I’m struggling to believe that that was a thought process that a real person actually had.

Sylphrena:

30-01-2015 20:20:19 UTC

You find “I want to know how people vote on proposals” unrealistic reasoning?

Brendan: he/him

30-01-2015 20:22:05 UTC

for In line with my “more death” policy.

I admit I may be slightly biased by certain recent accusations on Sylphrena’s behalf.

Sylphrena:

30-01-2015 20:24:13 UTC

Oh by the way against (obviously).

Bucky:

30-01-2015 22:50:16 UTC

After a full review of the evidence, here’s what I think of the accusations.

Ayesdeef’s points:
Claims to be human - null tell.  Either a Human or Android will claim to be Human when asked, if they answer.
Private conversation - stripped of context enough that I don’t think it’s meaningful
Pattern of extreme-Human proposals- There is only one such proposal since Androids were chosen; Insight does not fit the pattern.  “Lets Talk about This” could easily have been made by a Human for strategic reasons, such as engineering a Trial.
Scans - factually incorrect

Brendan’s points:
Suspects that the Defendant engineered a Trial on a likely human - Defendant’s actions are consistent with a human who is sufficiently suspicious.  I don’t think 65% is certain enough to risk canning a Human Pilot; on the other hand, getting Trials in general started as soon as possible favors Humans. 
Counter-accusation - Not relevant by itself to anyone but Brendan.

My points:
Insight - I’m not entirely satisfied with Sylphrena’s answer, but the proposal isn’t incriminating as much as really terrible.


My AGAINST vote stands.  For now.

Darknight: he/him

30-01-2015 23:10:11 UTC

against

ayesdeeef:

31-01-2015 00:25:38 UTC

Sylphrena, did you honestly believe that Proposal would trick anyone and let you see their voting patterns? Just to be clear, did you think that no-one would notice that the Proposal relied on you self-killing it to actually do anything?

Regardless of that, let’s talk about the MD1C. Some Android first strategically MD1C’d Brendan to try to change the atmosphere. Once Sylphrena realized that this had transpired, they made a Proposal that was clearly going to fail in order to make the atmosphere paranoid. Sylphrena then benefitted from the paranoid atmosphere by making a trial. The fact that Trials help Humans is a null point because making Trials help Androids disguise themselves as Humans. Sylphrena thus employed a strategy that relied on Android powers.

For the purpose of this trial, innocent until proven guilty is a ridiculous presumption. It’s impossible to prove someone guilty in such a secretive game. But humans should follow the principle of precaution to protect themselves from potential Android threats later in the game, thus increasing their own winning chances.

ayesdeeef:

31-01-2015 00:26:25 UTC

for By the way lol

Sylphrena:

31-01-2015 01:21:26 UTC

The fact that I put someone on trial does not give evidence one way or the other for my type. Yes, I could not have done what I did without being Sabotaged. That does not mean I am an Android. (You claim an Android MD1C’d Brendan, but I see no reason it couldn’t gave been a Human.)

As far as I can tell, your primary evidence for my Android-ness is that I put Brendan on trial. I did that mostly to start the witch-hunt. I’m not working on a master plan, guys. I’m doing what feels fun at any given moment. Sometimes this leads to bizzare proposals such as Insight. Sometimes it leads to me putting someone on trial on very little evidence. it does not mean I am an Android. I am a Human being.

ayesdeeef:

31-01-2015 01:45:35 UTC

against

Hmm, I guess it no longer matters whether Sylphrena MD1C’d Brendan for his plan, as he could be a Human anyway. Additionally, per ais523 in “Extended Hearings”, I see no reason to continue to indict Sylphrena with little to no standing evidence. My personal intuition carries no weight, so I will gracefully concede the case.