Friday, January 24, 2025

Proposal: We’re bringing Traitors back

Unpopular, 1-6. Failed by JonathanDark.

Adminned at 25 Jan 2025 19:51:03 UTC

In rule “Teams and Targets” add the following subrule “Traitors {I}” with the following description:

If the difference of the number of Participates on the on the larger team and the number of Participates on the on the smaller team is 2 or greater, the Mastermind of the small team may secretly make a non-Emperor Participate on the larger team into a Traitor. A Traitor may go against their current Mastermind’s wishes and help the opposing Mastermind. If the Traitor helps the opposing Mastermind achieve their Agenda; the Traitor wins 2 Triumphs. However, if the Traitor’s Mastermind achieve’s their Agenda, the Traitor loses 1 Triumph instead of gaining 1 Triumph from subrule Agenda.

This just feels more fairer due to our current situation.

Comments

SingularByte: he/him

24-01-2025 21:02:10 UTC

I’d probably use “subrule” instead of “subsection”, since the former has an actual formal definition.

Raven1207: he/they

24-01-2025 21:05:19 UTC

noted

ais523: Mastermind

24-01-2025 23:45:48 UTC

I don’t think the “helps … achieve” is sufficiently well defined to be useful for scoring. The rule should probably be worded along the lines of “take 2 Triumphs away from a Traitor if they gain one from reaching a target, but add 2 Triumphs to a Traitor if the opposing team gains one from reaching a target”.

You also need to track Traitors somehow (presumably they’re tracked by the Mastermind that appoints them, but the rule needs to say that.)

Finally, I think the requirement here should be “difference of 3 or greater” rather than “difference of 2 or greater” – that doesn’t matter at the current player count, but 5 vs. 3 probably shouldn’t lead to a Traitor appointment, whereas 5 vs. 2 should.

ais523: Mastermind

24-01-2025 23:46:34 UTC

(Note that you can’t have the Traitor’s Triumphs change as part of the normal Triumphing action, as that may quite possibly be done by someone who doesn’t know who the Traitor is.)

ais523: Mastermind

25-01-2025 00:12:56 UTC

There’s also a potential pooling issue here in that you can give away free Triumph points by sniping someone with the Traitor status just before you score, but I don’t expect that to be a problem in practice – a team with a 3-member deficit would struggle to score without their Traitor actively helping them.

ais523: Mastermind

25-01-2025 00:15:22 UTC

Oh, we’re out of edit window.

I am fine with the general principle behind this, and would encourage you or someone else to submit a corrected version.  against for this wording, though, as it breaks the scoring rule in two different ways (it requires players to make an impossible tracker update when scoring (they have to reduce the Traitor’s Triumphs rather than increase them, which they can’t do due to not ); and Traitor is an orphaned variable).

Habanero:

25-01-2025 01:01:20 UTC

I like the concept and would vote for normally, but I’ll have to against per the issues ais mentioned.

SingularByte: he/him

25-01-2025 02:52:22 UTC

against  The most elegant fix is probably to piggy back on the post saying which teams won. Make it the minority mastermind’s duty to apply the triumph changes, announcing the traitor if they have one. (If there’s categorically no traitor due to team participant counts, let either mastermind do it.)

JonathanDark: he/him

25-01-2025 05:43:22 UTC

Yeah, it’s unfortunate   against

Josh: Mastermind he/they

25-01-2025 09:31:20 UTC

against I’d enjoy a Traitor Reputation.

Brendan: he/him

25-01-2025 12:59:46 UTC

against