Wednesday, July 25, 2012

Proposal: What About Zero?

Open for more than 12 hours, quorums 6-0.—Quirck

Adminned at 27 Jul 2012 14:22:40 UTC

In rule 2.1 “Housekeeping” replace all instances of “positive integer” with “non-negative integer”. Also, add to the second paragraph the following:

The default number of Manuls is 1.

It should be possible to have zero CW or Manuls, since CW is spent and Manuls can die.

Also, everyone has 1 Manul now, so I’m guessing it should be explicitly noted as the default.


Clucky: he/him

26-07-2012 02:11:57 UTC

everyone does not have one. everyone has the option to get one. I donno who gave everyone 1.

Josh: he/they

26-07-2012 06:32:11 UTC

We all have to have at least 1, because we have to have “a positive integer” and therefore zero is an illegal value.

Josh: he/they

26-07-2012 06:32:31 UTC


quirck: he/him

26-07-2012 10:28:40 UTC

Josh, I think it means you must give youself the first one, not just may as in “If a Farmer does not possess any Manul’s and has not already done so this dynasty, he may give himself one Manul which possesses an Amulet with an ID of the Farmer’s choosing (provided, of course, it is unique).”. This “may” should be changed to “must”, i think.

against I agree that positive should be changed to nonnegative. But I disagree that by default Farmer has one Amuletless Manul. The default Manul should have an Amulet, otherwise we can have less Amulets than will probably be required by the future rules.

Josh: he/they

26-07-2012 11:57:15 UTC

“must” is always a tricky one, because it means that until the Farmer does so they exist in an illegal state, and if one part of the gamestate is illegal then other parts can be too. If they must possess one Manul, then there’s no qualitative difference if they possess one Manul by default, and it sidesteps the issue of the legality of the gamestate.

You’re right, though, that the amuletlessness is a problem: it means that anyone who joins after this proposal is enacted will start in a weaker position than those who generated their first Manul before. I’d rather see this fix go through and then patch it than vote it down, though.

quirck: he/him

26-07-2012 12:03:03 UTC

Well, ok, then we’ll just need to change the default value to zero, right? Active players who haven’t yet added amulets, have zero manuls right now, though indeed it is an illegal gamestate. Why are there “-”...

CoV for


26-07-2012 14:38:21 UTC


Vovix: he/him

27-07-2012 01:30:21 UTC



27-07-2012 14:27:20 UTC