Thursday, October 21, 2021

Proposal: Actuaries Unleashed

Fewer than a quorum not voting against at 5-8. Failed by Brendan.

Adminned at 22 Oct 2021 17:40:16 UTC

Before the sentence “Each House also has a publicly tracked list of Traps, which defaults to empty,” in the rule House Market, add the text:

The Appraised Value of a House is determined by the function v = 10 * (c + s) * a, rounded to the nearest integer, where v is Appraised Value, c is condition, s is size, and a is appeal.

If the proposal Bed Bath & Beyond passed, replace “s” in the above formula with “1.5*b + t + 2f”, and replace “s is size” in the text to be added with “b is the number of bedrooms, t is in the number of bathrooms, and f is the number of special rooms”.


redtara: they/them

21-10-2021 15:26:45 UTC

Open to tweaking the formula if people really don’t like this, or we could do so by proposal later.

For the sake of illustration, under current rules, 80 Argev Lane would be worth 1664, while 55 Dade Street would be worth 107.

The worst possible house would be worth 20. The best possible house would be worth a bit more than 100 times more, at 2086.

Rolling up three fake houses, 9/6/9 -> 1192, 2/4/9 -> 621, 7/9/1 -> 179.

There are decreasing marginal returns to condition (ie every extra point of condition is worth a little less) and increasing returns to size (a house that’s 2x the size is worth more than 2x more). If Appeal is essentially a stand-in for location, all this seems fairly intuitive to me, albeit in a maybe cartoonified way (as is appropriate).

Josh: Bookie he/they

21-10-2021 15:27:14 UTC

I’ll likely red-cross this due to being very maths

Josh: Bookie he/they

21-10-2021 15:27:50 UTC

It also seems like it’ll be very swingy

Clucky: he/him

21-10-2021 15:31:32 UTC

i agree with Josh that complicated math formulas should ideally be avoided. gives an even bigger advantage to people who run spreadsheets and the like

redtara: they/them

21-10-2021 15:36:07 UTC

A simpler version could just be 10*(c+s)*a, which would yield a min of 10, max of 2000, and the same houses would give 1260, 100, 1350, 540, and 160.

I kind of liked the scaling effects but maybe it’s similar enough that it doesn’t matter. What would you think of this version?

redtara: they/them

21-10-2021 15:37:17 UTC

Actually it would be cool if mediawiki had built in support for formulas a la excel.

Trapdoorspyder: he/him

21-10-2021 15:41:22 UTC

Is it just me or does this break if bed bath and beyond passes?

Kevan: he/him

21-10-2021 15:43:14 UTC

[redtara] The wiki here is running ParserFunctions, which supports basic mathematical functions, so we could have a template like {{house|10|6|4|2|2|1}} that generated a table row and a calculated house value.

That we can automate it doesn’t mean it’s a good idea, though, if the answer to a casual tactical thought like “should I pay to increase the size of this house by 15%, or add another bathroom?” is too complex for most players to work out in their head.

Trapdoorspyder: he/him

21-10-2021 15:44:05 UTC

Oh, nevermind. My math sucks today.

redtara: they/them

21-10-2021 15:50:55 UTC

Waiting to get a bit more feedback but if it’s complexity that people are objecting to rather than the basic idea I’ll probably just take out the exponents.


21-10-2021 15:57:46 UTC

gives an even bigger advantage to people who run spreadsheets and the like

but that’s all I have! make it more complicated!

redtara: they/them

21-10-2021 16:38:38 UTC

OK I’ve dropped the exponents which makes things significantly simpler. Now the most complicated operation is multiplying a two digit number by a one digit number.


21-10-2021 19:12:11 UTC

for Gogogo math-uaries!

Kevan: he/him

21-10-2021 19:14:39 UTC

imperial I preferred the idea that the value of a house could be derived by auctioning it.

Josh: Bookie he/they

21-10-2021 20:33:37 UTC

v = 10 * (c + s) * a

I will probably have to idle if this gets enacted.


redtara: they/them

21-10-2021 21:13:12 UTC

Kevan that’s fair, though I do like the idea that the value and price of a house might diverge.

Brendan: he/him

21-10-2021 21:48:06 UTC



21-10-2021 21:48:11 UTC


Vovix: he/him

21-10-2021 22:22:28 UTC

for I don’t think multiplying some numbers together is too much math.

Josh: Bookie he/they

21-10-2021 22:28:23 UTC

No, people who understand math never think that their language is an accessibility issue, but it is: please believe me when I say that “1.5*b + t + 2f” might as well be Hebrew to me.

Raven1207: he/they

22-10-2021 02:33:22 UTC



22-10-2021 10:22:16 UTC

against per Kevan: I’d like to explore pricing via the natural auction mechanic that’s getting set up.

Trapdoorspyder: he/him

22-10-2021 14:50:27 UTC

against I’d rather not, I was hoping for this dynasty not to end up something like last one where admins were afraid to enact proposals because of how complicated it was.

redtara: they/them

22-10-2021 15:14:23 UTC

@Trapdoorspyder We don’t have to make this something admins do. As written, Appraised Value wouldn’t even be publicly tracked (though this doesn’t preclude us from informally tracking it as a matter of convenience). And even if it were, unless proposals alter the equation or directly change the attributes of houses, enacting proposals would not involve having to recalculate Appraised Values.

Clucky: he/him

22-10-2021 15:28:14 UTC


Chiiika: she/her

22-10-2021 17:08:27 UTC


Zack: he/him

22-10-2021 17:35:03 UTC