Monday, April 02, 2007

Proposal: Amendments take 1

S.K. -Amnistar

Adminned at 02 Apr 2007 14:27:52 UTC

First of, this is a pretty rough draft…I mainly want to get a feel of what people think of the idea, and get some help drafting this to work out right.  The intention of the rule is to allow people to ammend their own (and no one elses) proposals, and then re-insert them at the end of the queue, regardless of where in the queue the proposal currently is.  If people like the idea conceptually, I’d like to put it in as a dynstic rule and give it a test run (after working out the wording kinks) and if it works really well get it put into the core rules.  This is to encourage people to make proposals on a more “rough” scale, and then make adjustments to the proposal to fit the needs of the community, rather than having to wait 48 hours for the 5 proposals later in the queue to get passed and failed before their own proposal (that they’ve already self-killed) gets cleared and they can repropose.

Create a new Dynsatic Rule “Amendments” with the text:

A Lifeform may propose an Amendment (if and only if e currently has one or more pending proposals) by posting an entry in the “Amendment” category with the title “(Proposal to be Amended) Amendment” and the body describing the changes to the proposal.

Amendments continue until one of the following conditions is true: The Pending Proposal in the Amendment’s title ceases to be pending, in which case the Amendment is considered failed or the pending proposal receives Quorum/2 votes FOR and the Amendment is considered passed.

If an Amendment is passed, the proposal it amends is failed, regardless of it’s location in the proposal queue, and then reproposed with the changes proposed in the amendment.

 

Comments

Amnistar: he/him

02-04-2007 05:58:24 UTC

please take a few minutes to actually comment on the proposal rather than just doing a vote Icon, so I know what you like/don’t like about the idea, and the current wording (which I’m sure will be alot)

ChronosPhaenon:

02-04-2007 11:41:02 UTC

against

- It doesn’t say how an Amendment is voted on.

- It’d mess a lot with the Proposal queue. I don’t find it desirable.

Amnistar: he/him

02-04-2007 15:42:23 UTC

Pont 1: Good point, I’ll include that in the rewrite.

Point 2: Doesn’t (or rather, shouldn’t) mess with the proposal queue to much.  I intended to add a line stating that amdendment proposals count against the 3 per day limit, and since you can only do it on yours, it’s really only useful if you need to fix something small in your proposals (an example from current times could be Seebo amending Herd Mentality to make it trivial, or Clucky amending Fixing Trivial Proposals to include the effects of Complexity, second take.  The small changes that are just stupid mistakes you make when you’re not quite on the ball, but shouldn’t be enough to waste alot of time.  Yes you can self-kill siad proposals,  but in a situation like this, Clucky would have to wait nearly 48 hours for his proposal to get failed, which just seems like to much to wait.

Hix:

02-04-2007 16:14:47 UTC

I think it would take lots of rule text to support this idea.  Off the top of my head, it would definitely have to specify:

*the exact voting process

*that the ONLY effect of an amendment can be to fail the original proposal and create another one

It’s an interesting feature, but it seems that mostly the only effect is to ease the burden of the “proposal limit” for someone who has written a buggy proposal.  I’m not convinced that the proposal limit issue is something that needs fixing.  While I do see some benefit to getting one’s proposal slot back for the purposes of a repropose, I also see some of the usual effects of avoiding the proposal limit that I’m not so fond of, and which tend to be amplified in any Dynasty during which the Fate of Proposals Matters (TM).

I guess what it boils down to is that, in my estimation, what this proposal “solves” isn’t really worth the complication that it causes. against

Amnistar: he/him

02-04-2007 16:30:56 UTC

Well, like I said, the next rewrite will include that it counts against your limits per day, so you can’t avoid proposal limit completely. 

And as for potential complication, that’s why I wnat to first have the rule be dynastic, get a feel for it and make changes to it, so that it works the way it’s supposed to.

spikebrennan:

02-04-2007 17:41:23 UTC

against what Hix said.

Cosmologicon:

02-04-2007 19:33:01 UTC

against I don’t like the idea, so I won’t vote for it later, probably. It’s too complicated to keep track of for the benefit it provides. I know it’s furstrating to have to repropose for something minor, but you can get pretty much the same effect by making self-kills immediately remove a proposal from the queue. I think that’s a simple solution to this. (Can people edit entries to change their category? This seems like a natural way to self-kill.) Also, I think it should be a core rule rather than a dynastic rule.

I disagree with Hix that it’s buggy proposals that tend to require amendment. Lots of times proposals that pass had less work put into them than proposals that fail. But frequently, someone suggests a change to your proposal aside from pointing out a bug, and you’d like to implement that instead, just to make it more popular.

Amnistar: he/him

02-04-2007 21:26:18 UTC

against S.K