Monday, May 11, 2020

Proposal: Checks and Balances

Timed out and passed, 2-1. Josh

Adminned at 13 May 2020 13:42:26 UTC

If the rule Build Cycle exists, remove it. If the rule Declarations contains the text “As a daily action, an Amnesiac may perform any Role Action of a Role that matches their own Posture”, remove it. Add a new rule to the ruleset, entitled Role Actions:

Amnesiacs may perform the Role Action or Counter Action of any Role that matches their own Posture. The act of carrying out any Role Action is a daily action, and each individual Role Action is a weekly action, unless otherwise stated.

Counter Actions may only be carried out if the action that they Counter has been carried out in the preceding 48 hours. Counter Actions never revert the action that they Counter; where a Counter Action states that its effect is to ‘undo’ the effect of another Action, that means that it carries out a subsequent action that has an opposite and neutralising effect on the gamestate from the action being Countered.

Add the contents of this page to that rule.

An attempt to bring together and standardise in a single view the role actions currently under discussion. Adds counters, and splits the diff on action frequencies.

Comments

Kevan: he/him

11-05-2020 13:24:28 UTC

Can we get a link to a specific version of the page, there? Maybe even at a different page title that doesn’t have a Josh victory scam in the edit history?

Josh: Observer he/they

11-05-2020 13:25:50 UTC

Ugh I knew I should have waited 5 years

Josh: Observer he/they

11-05-2020 13:27:11 UTC

There, are you happy now you monster

Kevan: he/him

11-05-2020 16:21:01 UTC

So the only thing this is negating in a non-trivial way is the Arsonist’s “Set the state of any building which is not secure to burned” - but what does that mean, given that this mechanic explicitly says it isn’t a revert and is instead “an opposite and neutralising effect”?

Can the Deputy change a Building from “burned” to any state other than secure, even if that’s not the state the Arsonist found it in?

imperial

Josh: Observer he/they

11-05-2020 17:26:04 UTC

Yeah, ‘opposite and neutralising effect’ is awkward phrasing that will need some degree of fixing - I couldn’t quite find the wording. If I feel inspired in the morning I’ll propose to fix.

Clucky: he/him

11-05-2020 18:50:46 UTC

Doesn’t this give every role only one role action? Might be a bit limiting.

Trigon:

11-05-2020 20:23:41 UTC

Terrible unbalanceable dynasty idea: proposals are stored in wikipages which are freely editable; at the end of the voting period, whatever the text says gets enacted.

Josh: Observer he/they

11-05-2020 21:00:31 UTC

@Clucky Only to begin with, and pretty easy to modify

derrick: he/him

12-05-2020 14:01:58 UTC

for

Darknight: he/him

12-05-2020 19:12:21 UTC

imperial

ayesdeeef:

12-05-2020 20:54:50 UTC

Would this scam have worked? Josh hasn’t remembered his role.

ayesdeeef:

13-05-2020 00:05:07 UTC

If a Sheriff sets a building from secure to public, and a Vandal sets it from public to tagged, can a Burglar still undo the Sheriff’s role action?

Josh: Observer he/they

13-05-2020 09:28:11 UTC

@ayesdeeef it was seeding - it was there so that, once we had a way of remembering our roles, I could just say “aha, but look” and win instantly on an apparently innocuous proposal.

@also ayesdeeef - the wording for counter actions needs revising, and that’s where my next proposal slot is going - I think it’s important that counters not revert the action that they’re countering, that they’re subsequent, dependent actions that simply have a neutralising effect, but I’ll need some time to figure out how to word that effectively.

Kevan: he/him

13-05-2020 09:38:04 UTC

Good point from Ayesdeeef about undoing. The Coup-style “role X blocks role Y” responses seem like they aren’t really going to work in an asynchronous game, where the blocker might not step in until a day or two later, after other actions have happened.

against CoV.

derrick: he/him

13-05-2020 13:03:26 UTC

This lacks a victory tag. I don’t think it could be used to achieve victory, even under the original scam.