Sunday, February 08, 2009

Proposal: Choose a method!

S.K
-Amnistar

Adminned at 09 Feb 2009 14:40:11 UTC

Add the following text to the end of Glossary rule 3:

If a dynastic rule and a core rule contradict each other, the dynastic rule takes precedence.

If more than half of the valid votes on this proposal include the text “Core over dynastic” then add the following text to the end of Glossary rule 3 instead:

If a dynastic rule and a core rule contradict each other, the core rule takes precedence.

Comments

Amnistar: he/him

08-02-2009 17:22:48 UTC

for

Sparrow:

08-02-2009 17:40:40 UTC

Consider the existing rules:

“At any time, a Member may place a Price Tag on a Recipe on eir Bowl.”

“A Price Tag cannot be place on a Recipe that already has a Price Tag.”

When read literally, these two statements contradict each other. However, the second rightly overrides the first.

It seems to me the proposed rule does not adequately embody our existing unwritten precedence rules, which I feel are superior.

against because it does not solve a problem.

Klisz:

08-02-2009 17:40:54 UTC

for

Kevan: he/him

08-02-2009 17:54:15 UTC

I think unwritten rule are that the more specific rule takes precedence. Dynastic taking precedence over Core would fit with that, but I imagine there are some exceptions.

(Core taking precedence over Dynastic is broken; if a Dynastic rule says “dead players may not make proposals”, the Core “players may make proposals” steamrollers it.)

against pending further discussion. (Partly because of the “if a small number of players say X, break the ruleset” clause.)

Sparrow:

08-02-2009 17:55:24 UTC

Yes, that’s what I was trying to express.

Amnistar: he/him

08-02-2009 17:56:51 UTC

against  Agree’d, specific over general should be the rule.

arthexis: he/him

08-02-2009 18:40:39 UTC

I think specific over general is the way to go, however such a definition could largely be subjective. So, I would prefer the MtG approach to rules: 1) Can’t takes precedence over Can. 2) Effects which depend on other effects, apply in such away that they can be applied (ie after the effect they require is also applicable).

against

Kevan: he/him

08-02-2009 18:57:22 UTC

Is can’t-vs-can really an MtG rule, when you have contradictions like “walls cannot attack” and “this card lets your walls attack”? Or is this just if a contradiction boils down to an equally-specific pair of “can” and “can’t” statements?

Qwazukee:

08-02-2009 19:04:56 UTC

against

Igthorn:

08-02-2009 19:11:36 UTC

against

Hix:

08-02-2009 19:28:11 UTC

against We’ve gone for a long time without a rule like this, and I think we’re just fine.  Rather than a sweeping generalization, deciding this on a case-by-case basis should suffice.

Gnauga:

08-02-2009 19:53:00 UTC

against This is what CfJs were meant for.

Klisz:

08-02-2009 20:18:40 UTC

against

Rodlen:

08-02-2009 20:28:02 UTC

against S/K

The first time I tried to propose something like this, it was a dynastic over core one.  Strangely, everyone who voted asked for a core over dynastic rule.

ais523:

09-02-2009 17:10:41 UTC

@Kevan: M:tG has an explicit can’t-over-can rule, which is why the wording cards which override the other way is strange (“Walls can attack as if they weren’t walls.”)