Monday, March 20, 2017

Call for Judgment: Conditioned Victory

Quorum voting against, failed 1 vote to 6. Failed by Kevan.

Adminned at 20 Mar 2017 21:12:26 UTC

Under the rule “Victory and Ascension” add to the list of conditions on which a DoV may be failed, the following:

It has been open for voting for at least 20 minutes and there are no conditions for victory within the Dynastic Rules.

Right now anyone can make a DoV and have it stall out the game for at least 12 hours, at any point in the game. Of course this might be covered by by the fair play rule, but this should streamline it.

Comments

Oracular rufio:

03-20-2017 03:01:40 UTC

I don’t know, I can see a situation where, like, the Emperor needs to go idle and makes a post like “ok, I am going to roll a dice and the person I select will be the next Emperor” and then after that that person would make a DoV, and they should be able to do that even if there are no victory conditions in the ruleset, and it should still be enacted if everyone votes for.

Whatever Cuddlebeam is going to do, it won’t work.

Bucky:

03-20-2017 03:10:00 UTC

This would either invalidate a win-by-proposal as a side effect (although the proposal could make an I-win rule) or do nothing (if win-by-proposal is a victory condition).

card:

03-20-2017 03:27:13 UTC

Hm, well if victory can be achieved by proposal then it’s in the gamestate. I’ll try something else.

Cuddlebeam:

03-20-2017 03:27:25 UTC

Amusingly, any CoV in the past can be failed at-will by anyone who has Admin powers or similar for

I don’t think our Admins would do that though, but it would still be a legal move (perhaps to attempt to win? I dunno).

Cuddlebeam:

03-20-2017 03:30:12 UTC

Note that above it says “A DoV may be failed if any of the following are true:”

“A DoV”

Not “A Pending DoV” like the section right above it.

card:

03-20-2017 03:30:26 UTC

Shoot, I’ll change it back.

card:

03-20-2017 03:33:10 UTC

Meaning that I made an edit right after Cuddlebeam voted and I changed it back to the original version.

[Cuddlebeam] Pending, Enacted or Failed are states that DoV have. Pending DoV, Enacted DoV and Failed DoV are all of the same class DoV.

Cuddlebeam:

03-20-2017 03:37:33 UTC

CfJs are free so I’m less concerned about vote-lockdowning or not, but I apologize if I voted too soon.

@Card: Yes, exactly. Is a “Pending DoV” a DoV? Then Pending DoVs could be failed. Is an “Enacted” DoV” a DoV? Then Enacted DoVs could be failed. Is a “Failed DoV” a DoV? Then Failed DoVs could be Failed (again)

So any DoV could be Failed. Any.

Cuddlebeam:

03-20-2017 03:38:22 UTC

(“Any” because currently, there are no wincons in the ruleset that we have right now)

Oracular rufio:

03-20-2017 03:41:38 UTC

against

Cuddlebeam, the only thing that happens when a DoV is failed is that hiatus ends if there are no other pending DoVs.  It doesn’t retroactively undo a dynasty or anything.

card:

03-20-2017 03:42:34 UTC

against

Cuddlebeam:

03-20-2017 03:43:40 UTC

I know. I’ve also learned that I shouldn’t explain stuff before I do it because card’s now trying to prevent it lol.

I shouldn’t say anything.

Oracular rufio:

03-20-2017 04:26:21 UTC

You would think this is common sense, but apparently not.

card:

03-20-2017 05:04:41 UTC

Who has common sense these days?

quirck:

03-20-2017 07:10:31 UTC

against

pokes:

03-20-2017 11:09:38 UTC

against

derrick:

03-20-2017 13:53:42 UTC

for

This won’t invalidate win by proposal. proposals are not declarations of victory. just have the proposal add to the ruleset “cuddlebeam wins!” or something like that.

Kevan:

03-20-2017 17:42:56 UTC

against Seems like a trap we’d forget about and trip over later.

Sphinx:

03-20-2017 18:20:22 UTC

against

I don’t think this is really an issue, since Cuddlebeam’s DoV was a valid attempt, failed or not, and not some spamming to disrupt gameplay.

Some limit in that regard can be added if it’s really needed, but if some exploit like this actually worked, it could probably simply add a rule as well. So this only imposes restrictions with negligible gain.