Tuesday, May 27, 2025

Story Post: Dice Do Not a Nomic Make

Timed out and failed, 1-4. Josh

Adminned at 29 May 2025 06:58:35 UTC

The essay “On the role of Argumentation in Nomic” includes the following argument:

It is sometimes said that the fundamental move of a Nomic is to propose, or vote. On the basis of the above, I would assert that the fundamental move of a Nomic is an argument, put forward respectfully but passionately, and then robustly defended. It is through that non-codified but nevertheless essential game action that coalitions can be built, plans can be broken or made, and the principle of the Golden Rule is made real in the game.

Add the following as a Mandate with an ID of 01:

A plan should include an argument (an inherent value of direct competition by which resolution must be decided non-randomly) on which at least two players begin opposed by instituting said argument as part of the initial hypothetical gamestate.

Dice do not a nomic make. The argument may be speculative, as all drafts are purely hypothetical, but should constitute an initial design space of direct competition between at least two players; this may be as simple as the Emperor and the players, or dividing the players, at game start, into at least two factions.

Comments

Josh: he/they

27-05-2025 07:11:44 UTC

against I’m not sure that it’s the Emperor’s role to define an argument that players must play out during the course of a game - my feeling is that argumentation is an emergent property of play rather than something that should be programmed in.

Verba:

27-05-2025 07:25:55 UTC

Hm, a fair critique. I do appreciate the emergent quality of the argument as a natural progression of the gamestate rather than something enforced by the Emperor. That presents this proposal as a bit zealous, interpreted in that manner.

However, I do like having an initial non-random query that players must eventually address in their proposals; not enforced by the Emperor, but by the gamestate itself. The Emperor would simply serve as the architect, rather than a dictator.

Kevan: he/him

27-05-2025 09:12:30 UTC

I like the idea of Emperors being encouraged to pose some unanswered questions about their dynasty’s theme or mechanics, as a creative prompt. I’m not sure that needs a further debate club level of telling players which side they have to argue for, though.

I do think “direct competition by which resolution must be decided non-randomly” is there implicitly, when players are already competitors. Although victory conditions generally don’t get proposed until midway through a dynasty, in BlogNomic, “eventually there will be one winner” is almost always expected, and even in the most dice-based dynasty, we can’t get there without proposals and votes.

against

JonathanDark: Puzzler he/him

27-05-2025 11:45:14 UTC

against Agreed that this is a bit heavy-handed. It takes some experience with dynasties to get a feel for the right amount of Emperor pressure on the dynastic content, and even then, it can vary per Emperor or per dynasty, as explained in Imperial Styles

DoomedIdeas: he/him

27-05-2025 14:24:00 UTC

against I feel that it is better to allow arguments to occur naturally, instead of forcing them. I feel as though it can cause some tension between players when they are forced into an argument they do not wish to have.