This feels… pointed

But also yes, I hate the cellar and think anyone who voted for it is silly, so sidestepping the high-stakes personal instigation, I will greentick

What is so egregious about the Cellar? Is it the fact that it’s an Inside Location connected to another Inside Location, or is it just thematically displeasing?

Occupants of it are completely immune to grapple! It’s directly undermining another ruleset mechanic, which is nonsensical at this stage in the game.

The fact that for some reason everyone also send to be really adverse to enforcing capacity only enhances the issue, as now everyone can crowd into the cellar and just ride the dynasty out with no risk.

Might as well just repeal the whole ruleset at a certain point.

I don’t think you’re addressing the fundamental problem. If the only thing you do is delete the Cellar, someone else can still Propose and get in a Location called “Basement” which does the same thing.

What you want, in addition to removing the Cellar, is to Propose a rule like this:

Every Inside Location must have at least one Outside Location in its Routes.

How exactly can everyone crowd into the cellar? If, for example, you have 5 people in the cellar then it’s over capacity by 3. This puts the Pork Curing Shed over capacity by 1 automatically, before you even look at who’s in the shed.

The Pork Curing Shed being over capacity then means that the Shed, Tent and Cellar are all basically outdoors.

This is *literally* the point of my recently enacted proposal. If immunity to grapples is a problem, then fix grapples.

(Incidentally I’m aware that this argument is more against Josh’s stance when Brendan is the one who raised the proposal, but I’m not aware of if there’s a different reason behind it.)

@SingularByte Passing a proposal that breaks an existing rule and then making it the existing rule’s problem doesn’t work for me, sorry. Just don’t pass busted proposals in the first place! The issues with the cellar were pointed out but still a majority waved it through; can’t do anything about that but it’s honestly not my job to fix that quorum’s mess.

Because this deliberately resets all gamestate progress that I’ve made this dynasty, with no way for me to opt out.

This is not stopping future “busted” Proposals from passing and introducing the exact same problem. This just feels like it’s targeting the Cellar and its inhabitants in particular at this moment in time, and there’s no concern around a future Proposal that would add the Cellar right back in.

Mmm, it really is almost unfair to be singled out by the deleterious effects of a proposal.

You were in last place on 85.4F, and the group passed a couple of proposals in sequence that let you alone get up to 90.7F. Nobody else got any benefit from those two proposals, and you may well be our only respawner this dynasty. I think you did alright there.

Yesterday, on Discord: “Triple Point does also apply to every other cold player with no items who might be considering taking a free +10F, as well as every future unidler, and was intended to.” Today, on the blog: “Nobody else got any benefit from those proposals, and you may well be our only respawner this dynasty.”

I don’t expect to change votes by arguing here, but “yes, the changes were detrimental, but they fairly impact multiple people to the same degree” and “actually, the changes were beneficial, and indeed specifically benefited only you” remain challenging for me to square, and I want to record that. It seems to me that if Triple Point had been a fair-handed rebalancing, it wouldn’t also be the case that reinitialising has now become so obviously a penalty that no one else can be expected to undertake it.

[Brendan] Respawn proposed that everyone could reset themselves to 98.6F. While that was being voted on, Triple Point looked at the process and proposed that actually maybe 98.6F was too high and everyone should instead get the average. Both passed, and I think it’s fair to say from that that the group as a whole thought that Respawning was a good idea but that it should default to average Heat rather than maximum. In another world that could have been a single proposal.

Yesterday on Discord, Triple Point was still pending and served as a caution to cold and idle players (including those itemless players who were well above average but would welcome a free while-stocks-last boost to 98.6F) that the 98.6F respawn might never actually become a thing. Today on the blog it turns out you were the only player who chose to claim the benefit from respawning knowing that, and I do think it’s possible that nobody else will respawn, from this point. (Players above the average point now have no reason to, and the only player below average with no items to lose hasn’t been gamestate active this dynasty.)

Triple Point was a cautionary “if anyone chooses to claim the respawn benefit, it might (if this enacts) be less effective”; this counter-proposal is a more aggressive “if anyone chooses to claim the Cellar benefit or has already done so in the past, this might have a significant downside”.

We’re not going to see eye to eye on this, but the language for has already done so in the past is in this proposal because it was also in Triple Point. I made the argument on Discord, while Triple Point was pending, that it would target only one player and that there was no real way for me to avoid that targeting; the counter-argument was made that the votes would stand because that wasn’t necessarily true; it’s now apparently accepted that it was true, but that I should be grateful it wasn’t worse. I can’t quite get to gracious acceptance on that.

Withdrawn, as this clearly isn’t about to pick up four votes in favor by tomorrow.

My sense is that Triple Point may also have successfully targetted other players, but they’re just the planes that didn’t come back. Without Triple Point, we may have seen some of the colder players grab their free Heat before the (pre-Frogspawn) week was up, we may have seen an idle player bursting in at the end of that week, when we were all a bit more bruised and frozen for it, and thanking us for letting them bypass the “unidling players start at average” penalty.

That the “no, wait, let’s say average rather than 98.6” consensus played out in the queue rather than in the four-hour edit window or in pre-Respawn Discord chat doesn’t feel like it makes much difference in retrospect, to me, but I suppose these things do get stretched around the timezones, and you had hours rather than minutes of thinking you were likely to get the 98.6, before the group changed its mind.