Thursday, February 08, 2007

Proposal: E’s Are Bad

Cannot be enacted without CoV (2-13)
Failed by Hix

Adminned at 09 Feb 2007 13:52:53 UTC

Remove “Spivak pronouns, as defined in the Glossary, shall be used whenever an Actor is referred to.” from Rule 1.1.

Repeal Glossary section 3.5 (Spivak).

Replace all Spivak with appropriate instances of the singular “they”, throughout the ruleset.

Add a new Rule, “Spivak Cleanup” (so that later proposals don’t have to worry about whether to use Spivak):-

Spivak usage shall be adjusted into the singular form of “they”, whenever a proposal passes that contains Spivak. Any admin may repeal this rule at any time.

Comments

snowballinhell7001:

08-02-2007 22:17:52 UTC

Hurrah. My recent gender-neutrality crusade has spurred action.  for

alethiophile:

08-02-2007 22:21:05 UTC

Spivak is annoying, but I’ve gotten used to it.  imperial

ChinDoGu:

08-02-2007 22:29:07 UTC

for

Hix:

08-02-2007 22:38:51 UTC

against If we must get rid of the Spivak, at least let’s not change it to “they”.  It may have a an accepted history of usage, but for a Nomic, there is potential for ambiguity: “they” is a plural pronoun.  How about just switching to gendered pronouns such as “he” or “she” (note I am not suggesting we use the cumbersome “he or she”), with a note in the Glossary explaining that the choice of which gender is used in a pronoun is irrelevant unless otherwise specified?

Angry Grasshopper:

08-02-2007 22:43:58 UTC

Singular “they” makes baby Ganesha cry.

Clucky: he/him

08-02-2007 22:50:36 UTC

against Hix is right. They would be confusing. Plus

“If an Actor’s nose is longer than Kevan’s, they can eat some cheese” sounds like Kevan and the Actor can both eat the cheese. =P

Kevan: he/him

08-02-2007 23:18:11 UTC

And if “e can eat some cheese”, it sounds like either can eat it. Badly-worded rules are badly-worded rules.

Clucky: he/him

09-02-2007 00:45:22 UTC

perhaps, but “e can eat some cheese” is at least clearer than “they can eat some cheese”.

Angry Grasshopper:

09-02-2007 00:46:44 UTC

against

Rodney:

09-02-2007 01:31:57 UTC

against

Doremi:

09-02-2007 02:52:33 UTC

against Not they. She.

viewtyjoe:

09-02-2007 03:19:40 UTC

against

Amnistar: he/him

09-02-2007 05:05:54 UTC

against

Excalabur:

09-02-2007 07:07:44 UTC

against Spivak!

Josh: Observer he/they

09-02-2007 09:27:36 UTC

against

ChronosPhaenon:

09-02-2007 12:41:44 UTC

against The Personal is Politic.

spikebrennan:

09-02-2007 16:28:24 UTC

against and agreed with Hix.  I’m not defending Spivak, but the replacements that have been Proposed thus far have been worse.

Edometheus:

09-02-2007 16:32:04 UTC

against
As much as I don’t like Spivak, it’s better than the singular they.