Thursday, September 26, 2019

Call for Judgment: Gimme Poker

Timed out 2 votes to 2. Failed by Kevan.

Adminned at 28 Sep 2019 09:16:28 UTC

Increase the HSR of the Castaway named pokes by 2, decrease their Date by 2, and increase their Wood by 2.

pokes interprets the rule about shelter construction to mean that even with “Items” repealed, if the record of construction is in the GNDT log, then the shelter has been successfully constructed and can be used. I think that’s interesting and novel, but I think the GNDT comments aside from dice results are not gamestate, and that if a shelter cannot be “recorded in their Items” per the rule text then it cannot be constructed at all. Let’s vote.



26-09-2019 06:54:36 UTC

Clever, but alas,  for

Yes, we know he built it. It may even be in his “Items”, (although “recorded” makes little sense without the context). But as nothing says you “have” your Items, they are Weatherman property AFAIK, and may not be used by anybody.

A day wasted is a very reasonable consequence.


26-09-2019 07:03:35 UTC

against I argue:

- That even if a shelter cannot be “recorded in [my] Items” we can treat this as similar to the copious other flavor text that doesn’t affect my ability to do the rest of the action.

- That even if GNDT comments aren’t gamestate, the changes to the variables are, and are enough to deduce that I must have built a shelter (there’s no other way to decrease wood without increasing the Message in the Sand or Giant Bonfire totals) and rested in it (the only other way to decrease HSR to zero is the Traitor route, but I couldn’t also increase my Date this way).

Kevan: he/him

26-09-2019 09:10:28 UTC

Hmm, Pokes’s “even if GNDT comments aren’t gamestate, the changes to the variables are” is an interesting one. Gamestate is “information which the Ruleset regulates the alteration of”, and you’re arguing that the full history of alterations themselves are also gamestate?

Kevan: he/him

26-09-2019 17:11:55 UTC

Leaning towards for for now - although rules like “if a player has not already done so in the past 72 hours” can refer to the existence or consequence of past game actions (in the same way they can refer to the existence or consequence of any unambiguous real-world event), I don’t think those past game actions are themselves gamestate, so whether Pokes has a Shelter is an Orphan Variable - a variable where there is no “manner in which [its value] can be determined from other gamestate variables”, Regarding gamestate variables alone - that Pokes has 0 HSR and 25 Wood right now - does not confirm to us that a Shelter exists.


26-09-2019 18:05:20 UTC

Ah, so the dividing line is between actions and data? I’m not sure that works, completely.  Wouldn’t “the number of times a wizard has collected food from the soup kitchen” be an orphan variable? Then again, maybe it should have been. But how about “the number of hours since the player has done ...”? I feel like actions are information, and that that information is regulated by the ruleset.

I’m going with my original argument, that people don’t have their items, anymore.


26-09-2019 18:13:29 UTC

Actually, “the number of hours since ...” is more just regulated by time itself. But whether or not someone actually took an action is regulated, isn’t it?

Kevan: he/him

26-09-2019 19:12:15 UTC

I suppose so. The wider phrase defining gamestate is “information which the Ruleset regulates the alteration of” - BlogNomic doesn’t have any rules that allow players to alter the real-world flow of time, but it does have rules that control the alteration of eg. how many times a player has Hunted a Pig.

In which case against

(I’m not convinced by the “items belong to the Weatherman” line. If all we have in the ruleset, after the Items rule was repealed, is “a Castaway may construct a Shelter” and “a Castaway may rest in their Shelter if they have a Shelter”, I think the fact they constructed it is enough to imply that it’s “theirs”, and if something is “theirs” then they “have” it.)


26-09-2019 19:48:34 UTC

Fair enough. Vote stands 2:2.