Tuesday, March 14, 2023

Proposal: Idle Process [Core]

Reached quorum 5 votes to 0. Enacted by Kevan.

Adminned at 15 Mar 2023 08:20:17 UTC

In “Idle Runners”, replace “An Admin may render a Runner Idle if that Runner has asked to become Idle in an entry or comment from the past 96 hours (4 Days), or if that Runner has not posted an entry or comment in the past 168 Hours (7 days). In the latter case, the Admin must announce the idling in a blog post.” with:-

An Admin may render a Runner Idle if that Runner has asked to become Idle in an entry or comment from the past 96 hours (4 Days), or if that Runner has not posted an entry or comment in the past 168 Hours (7 days). In the latter case, the Admin must announce the idling in a blog post, and the 168 Hour idle timeout is considered to be reduced to 96 hours for that Runner during the current and subsequent dynasty.

Replace “unless the Runner who would be Unidled asked to become (or rendered themselves) Idle within the past 96 hours (4 days)” with:-

unless the Runner who would be Unidled has become Idle within the past 96 hours (4 days)

Two weird things about our idling rule:

  • Timing out is always tactically better than requesting to be idled, as you can return to the game at any point if you suddenly notice a scam, or an opportunity to kingmake. Only if you voluntarily idle out do you experience a four-day window during which you don’t have that option.
  • The two options are presented interchangeably, as if we don’t really mind either way whether a departing player asks to be idled or walks away from the game.

This underlines the seven-day timeout as more of a failure state by extending the four-day return limit to such players, and by saying that if someone times out at 7 days, they can be timed out at just 4 days if they go quiet again in the current or subsequent dynasty - that we won’t hold the queue for a further 3 days to see if they start voting again, when their record suggests that they won’t.

Comments

SingularByte: he/him

14-03-2023 15:22:35 UTC

My one worry about this is that it might be somewhat tricky to remember at times if someone idled in the previous dynasty, but it’s probably not a critical issue; if someone is idled after 7 days instead of 4, it’s not the end of the world.

A mistake in the other direction though could be kind of tricky. If someone misremembers when a player was idled, that could lead to an invalid change in quorum, which could lead to a whole host of proposals being processed early. It would admittedly be on the admin to double-check though.

Kevan: he/him

14-03-2023 15:46:07 UTC

Mistakes can always happen; an admin can illegally idle or unidle somebody, illegally close a proposal or miscount its votes, with similar knock-on consequences. We shouldn’t be afraid to change core for fear of that.

Like you say, though, this only goes in one direction. It’s an optional extra rule that an admin can choose to invoke; an admin who forgets all about it just won’t apply any four-day idles, and won’t be breaking any rules by not doing so.

I’d also expect admins to mention the reason for a quicker idling when it happened, so other players (including the idled one) would be able to double-check as well.

SingularByte: he/him

14-03-2023 15:57:18 UTC

Sure, sounds good to me.  for

Josh: Observer he/they

14-03-2023 16:36:54 UTC

From idle, a couple of observations:

1) Kevan, you’re best placed to answer this: will your idle-player tool be able to accommodate this change?

2) ‘Subsequent’ (as in, ‘current and subsequent dynasty’) doesn’t really only mean ‘immediately succeeding’. Miriam-Webster gives ‘following in time, order, or place’, wiktionary gives ‘Following in time; coming or being after something else at any time, indefinitely’. The use of the definite article helps a little but I do not think that this is a precise enough use of the word to definitively state that the counter-reading (i.e. that any dynasty after the offending dynasty is ‘subsequent’ and thus that any player who has ever timed out is on a 4-day time out forever) is a core rules scam.

3) ‘[T]he 168 Hour idle timeout’ is only really declarative enough because there’s no other 168 hour clocks in the ruleset; the concept of an ‘idle timeout’ would just as easily apply to, or possibly even more appropriately apply to, eg, ‘An Admin may Unidle a Runner [...] unless the Runner who would be Unidled asked to become (or rendered themselves) Idle within the past 96 hours (4 days)’.

In general I approve of the general thrust of this and think that only #2 is a serious issue, but I do think that #2 is a serious issue that should be patched immediately at the very least.

Kevan: he/him

14-03-2023 17:10:59 UTC

1) Not to the extent of being able to detect which players have been idled recently. I could add an additional colour for players in the 4-7 day window if that seemed useful, although it would be redundant in most cases.

2) True enough. I suppose we have at least one full dynasty to patch that.

3) That was the intention, but I’ll bear in mind an “in the previous sentence” for a patch.

JonathanDark: he/him

14-03-2023 17:15:21 UTC

for

Trapdoorspyder: he/him

14-03-2023 17:52:07 UTC

for

Raven1207: he/they

15-03-2023 06:42:59 UTC

for