Friday, May 03, 2024

Proposal: Kick the Can

Timed out, 3-2. Enacted by JonathanDark.

Adminned at 05 May 2024 17:38:42 UTC

In “The Haul” replace “If the Haul is empty” to “If there is no pending Haul post”

In “Distribution” after “Such responses must unambiguously identify where every element of the Haul’s contents would go.” add

Alternatively, their comment may include clear request to punt the haul, but may not include both a request to punt and a distribution in the same comment.

in the distributing Atomic Action replace the step “Move the contents of the Haul to the Thieves in the manner specified by this common Proposition” with

If the common Proposition was a distribution, move the contents of the Haul to the Thieves in the manner specified by it
If the common Proposition was a request to punt, roll a DICEX where X is the current number of Florins in the Haul, then remove that many Florins from the Haul. Also for each Possession in the Haul, roll a DICE2 and if the result is a 1, remove it from the Haul.

finally to Distribution add

If a Haul post has been pending for at least 48 hours and a quorum of Thieves have not posted equivalent Propositions it, the City may perform the Distributing atomic action on it, treating the Common Proposition as a Request to Punt

Comments

JonathanDark: he/him

03-05-2024 16:58:27 UTC

It’s not clear to me how the Request to Punt works. When the City performs the punt, DICEX Florins are removed from the Haul, and possibly some Possessions are removed, but where do the rest of the Florins and any remaining Possessions go?

 

JonathanDark: he/him

03-05-2024 17:02:18 UTC

Was your intention that the Haul remains active after a punt? As written, this Proposal wouldn’t allow that because the final step of the Distribution atomic action is “Change the status of the Haul post to enacted.”

If this was intentional, and the Haul is then frozen forever, what’s the point of the random rolls? If nothing is distributed to any Thieves in a punt, then just say the Haul is “failed” and move on, in my opinion.

Clucky: he/him

03-05-2024 17:04:53 UTC

So my understanding is that there is a haul, and there is a haul post

Currently, the haul always gets emptied when the haul post is enacted (which is good, because a haul post cannot be created if the haul isn’t empty)

But this would allow the haul contents to roll over to the next haul post.

JonathanDark: he/him

03-05-2024 18:26:25 UTC

Ah! In my mind I had thought the Burglary had reset the Haul, but you’re right, it just adds to it. That works for me.

4st:

03-05-2024 20:12:21 UTC

for if we disagree… then the tension builds because the pot gets bigger!

it also gets easier to distribute evenly though.

JonathanDark: he/him

03-05-2024 21:01:38 UTC

for

Kevan: he/him

04-05-2024 08:54:39 UTC

against A mild against from the outside, for making difficult Hauls easier to resolve.

Desertfrog:

04-05-2024 09:54:09 UTC

against per Kevan

Clucky: he/him

04-05-2024 16:23:06 UTC

@Kevan there is pretty significant cost to it, as you lose about half the haul.

I worry without something like this that we’ll run into a point where a haul simply doesn’t get resolved because no one wants to budge on it

Kevan: he/him

04-05-2024 16:48:17 UTC

“Losing” half the Haul isn’t really a cost, though - from another perspective this resolution mechanic can be seen as inflating the current Haul by 50% if people can’t reach an agreement on it. (And everyone gets an Attitude bonus!)

Given how close the Blacksmith Haul drifted to “just give everything to Desertfrog”, I think holdouts are likely to end up losing out to a frustrated quorum doing something flippant.

Kevan: he/him

05-05-2024 14:43:01 UTC

Noting that The Carpenter Haul will hit 48 hours in a few hours’ time, with no actual disagreement yet, just a sub-quorum of responses because it’s the weekend.